France says no to EU constitution

Fox Moth.

de Havilland bipe with an enclosed cockpit and a little cabin within the fuselage.

There’s still one or two around

Moggy

Hmmm – bipe. Not old enough to remember them either – only seen sepia photographs of them – would you have been in one of them???!! :diablo:

Explain – I’m not old enough to remember that……………..!!! 😉

Fox Moth.

de Havilland bipe with an enclosed cockpit and a little cabin within the fuselage.

There’s still one or two around

Moggy

In truth I think we should bring back the old Pounds, Shillings and Pence.

Half a Crown 🙂 The full cost of my first ever flight. (DH Fox Moth)

Moggy

Explain – I’m not old enough to remember that……………..!!! 😉

The European project is not over. The constitution has been rejected, but the EU is still an economic free-trade union and it should continue to exist like this. Do we want to go back to 19th century politics of nationalism and protection of economies. There was a time when Europe’s division was necessairy: the days of colonialism. However, in the post-colonial Era Europe should at least form an economic and military union.

The EU has been able to keep peace in Europe for the past 50-years, together with NATO. NATO was to keep the Russians out, the EU to keep the Germans in. I thing it succeeded well doing that.

I was a mere babe-in-arms 😉

Moggy

Showing your age there, Moggy….. :D:D:D

As a non-european, I think the Euro will make travel much more simple –
I’ll admit that. However, the total loss of the other currencies is a bit of a
detraction from the experience. It’s part of the fun of traveling, I think.

This has always been my argument for keeping the Pound and not adopting the Euro.

Here in the UK we get lots of our income from tourism, the quirky currency adds to the attraction, rather than diminishes it.

In truth I think we should bring back the old Pounds, Shillings and Pence.

Half a Crown 🙂 The full cost of my first ever flight. (DH Fox Moth)

Moggy

So as i ask before now with two major No’s wil this be the end of the EU as we see it right now?

And as before, Carzyman, the answer is “No” – remember, the French and Dutch people have voted against a change in the status quo.

The EU has existed for a number of years now without an overarching Constitution and there is no reason why it can’t continue to exist without one.

So as i ask before now with two major No’s wil this be the end of the EU as we see it right now?

Also since some Nations Gov. did the actual vote do you think these nations People will demand a vote.

RER

Appears the Dutch are even less enamoured with the idea of handing their soverneignty over to a bunch of eurocrates than the French. Over 60% no. Will the leaders take note or bull ahead?

Looks like Tony is off the hook.

Sauron

I have admittedly paid little atention to the unification of Europe, well, in
details anyway.

I see a few problems arising from it. With the US, the intent was to have
acentral governemnt to protect the people – it was to regulate trade and
the army. It soon became clear that somethign more united was needed.

With Europe, do they really NEED to be united? War is not too much of
an issue, and trade has been regulated for centuries. Is the Euro thing a
matter of convienience? If so, I’d be apprehensive.

As a non-european, I think the Euro will make travel much more simple –
I’ll admit that. However, the total loss of the other currencies is a bit of a
detraction from the experience. It’s part of the fun of traveling, I think.

I’ve seen beurocracy at the local level – and it’s bad. Statewide, it’s worse,
nationally, it’s simply inexcusable, and would be criminal if the beurocrats
themselves were not determining what was criminal or not. If you think
you’ve got beurocracy now, just wait till you get a central government, like
we have! The Vogons will be envious.

CM, the EU won’t dissolve. (It has nothing to do with NATO countries, as NATO – military pact including many european countries, not France, but also the USA- is something completely different). The EU (under its various names) often had difficulties, as the interests, wages, or social levels can be very different from one country to another. So, this will hardly chenge anything, just slow it down.

The problem is not the “Super Country”, because it would be interesting to have a truly unified police force like your FBI, for example, or many other joint services which would simplify life. The Euro as currency is a pretty good thing, especially for travellers. Those who don’t move from their little town won’t benefit in any way. The problem is that the institution itself is a dinausaur, which became larger and larger, without ever adapting its way to work. And another big challenge is that the social levels are different from one country to the other. Hence many industries leaving western europe for eastern europe. But this won’t stop there.

Never forget the main goal at unifying Europe was to avoid wars. It worked pretty well till now 😉

Regarding french politics: it won’t affect Chirac. But it affected the government, which resigned. That might mean a change in politics.

So I heuss the next question is if NL and some other of the NATO Countrys vote No is it safe to say the the EU “COULD” dissolve.

I’ve always had the impression when I’ve visit Europe that alot of folks really don’t like the whole Super Country thing and wish to return back to seperat Countrys and Currancy.

Also what effect will the vote have on Her Chiracs political life, I mean is their a chance that he will be boot from the Pres. position.(One can only hope) Also if he is booted who would step in.

RER

As for rules being broken – just how much money has AF received from the french govt? + stabilty pact + every time the ferry ports are blocked that is breaking the freedom of movement rules etc

For a minute, I thought you were talking about me!!!!

As for rules being broken – just how much money has AF received from the french govt? + stabilty pact + every time the ferry ports are blocked that is breaking the freedom of movement rules etc

AF : When AF received money , AF was gov owned, therefore there is nothing wrong with that.

Stability pact : I agree , but other countries such as Italy , NL, Germany did the same

Ports blocked. The right of strike is written is our constitution. (Not the right to block the ports though ..)

Speaking of single currency, I guess you haven’t travelled abroad a lot?
You might be mixing up several things here..

All over the world.

what a shame – not! – about time the eu realised that there are real people out there not just a faceless mass who will follow every eu idea like sheep. Will Chirac dare to put it to another vote in the vain hope that the ‘correct’ answer will be returned as had been done for the Maastrict Treatry and Nice – both rejected by different countries yet still implemented.

As for rules being broken – just how much money has AF received from the french govt? + stabilty pact + every time the ferry ports are blocked that is breaking the freedom of movement rules etc

VIVA LA FRANCE

Well, you guys are having some kind of debate in you countries, here in spain there was a massive “yes” campaign by all the media. The two main political parties went for the “yes” and so nobody could make a good “no” campaign.

I´m not saying that the results would have been different, but it´s not fair to make a referendum without letting every voice to be heard.

The Sun says what Mr Murdoch wants, Flood.

Big big difference. :diablo: