Greece – What Happens Now?

Not really because I am trying to stick to CD’s question and you are broadening the argument out to aid. And that is entirely separate from the Greek debt problem, although no doubt worthy of another thread!!

Pete. Both you and I know what I have said is right. Rome wasn’t built in a day, and I agree it will take years, so what, they will have altered things so it never happens again.Main reason for a lot of this?. Corruption on a massive scale.

Just look at the Millions raised by Bob Geldhov in Band Aid, how long did all that last before they were asking for more?.We are no longer a Power that can dish money out to others, when our very own are suffering.

Jim.

Lincoln .7

Linc – a couple of points:

1. Greece has NO chance of repaying all the debts it has incurred.

2. You and I will be pushing up the daisies years before our debt is repayed. And we both intend to have a long life!!;)

I.M.H.O. The more we keep pumping into Greece, and ALL the other Countries we give Millions to, the more they will do an “Oliver Twist, Can I have some more Sir?

What “P”s me off is the fact that this Government can refuse to pay out £2.50 for a tablet, that would extend the life of a Cancer sufferer for a period of time. Also other drugs that costs Peanuts compared to what we give away to other Countries in Foreign Aid etc, that would extend the life or improve the quality of life for thousands.here at home.

Let Greece sort their own problems out.
Once we get the “All clear” with our debts, then by all means help others out,

Jim.

Lincoln .7

CD – I really don’t see how you can separate the two. Greece’s debt crisis is inextricably bound to its EU membership. And trying to stick to the central point, I believe that the long term viability of both the Euro and the EU will be affected. As indeed it should be.

The Greeks will never be able to pay back the money they owe !! 😡

Spain at least has some industry/manufacturing behind it !

But Portugal surely must be a big risk !

In effect people are discussing the Greek crisis really, Afterall nobody is really that worried what happens to Greece I am sad to say . Everyone is worried what happens to their own country and altimately how it will effect their lives, Its human nature.

As I see it long term Greece will owe the rest of the EU a huge amount of cash they can not repay, Short term the Greek government will carry on stumbling through.

The people of Greece will suffer due to austerity measures, There will be more unrest and that unrest will go all across Europe as more people in every country get fed up with whats going on.

As I said before the debt crisis in Greece is just a tip of a very big iceberg and many countries are also in very similar situations, Its not going to get better over night or probably for some countries for many years or decades and sadly there is no easy solution to any of it.

We have our Sh1t creek to go up and so far nobody made the paddle.

I should have started a thread about EU membership shouldn’t I? So, given that the UK and Greece are still (for the moment) in the EU any chance we could discuss the Greek debt crisis?

The Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou has today survived a ‘vote of confidence’ by twelve votes (!) with the parliament voting strictly on party lines and split more-or-less right down the middle…

…nice to see the Greek politicians have the interests of the EU and the rest of the world at heart! :rolleyes:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13869428

So what do UK politicians/MPs do? :rolleyes::D:eek:

I give up. What do they actually do? I know that my last MP agreeing with everything I said on a certain issue, that it was something he was in favour of. Imagine my surprise :rolleyes: when he actually voted against the issue he claimed to be in favour of.

But seriously, I would like to know what our MP’s actually do, because once they’re elected it’s a certain fact that the electorate that elected them won’t have any more influence.

Regards,

kev35

For me it is not so much that some of our laws are drafted in euroland,it is more the huge cost of running needless layers of government/hangers on etc.
As I and others have said before also the EU has become too large and absorbed too many inefficient/bankrupt/corrupt countries,it was bad enough with farming subsidies back in the 70’s/80’s but now the whole thing is a wasteful mess/financial black hole.
The question may not be ‘what would happen if we withdraw’…it might be ‘what will happen if we dont withdraw’.

rgds baz

I tottally agree

Trouble is too many people have had a hand in the pot, and you could argue thats why certain countries joined in the first place.
I would not get into EU slagging off as I am not really against it in its earlier form.

In some ways the problem now less with the European union and more with the Euro itself. Country after country dumped their weak currency and took on the Euro. The best decision the UK has made in last 10 years was not taking on the Euro when we could of.

The thing is now I do not see an easy way for the UK to pull out of it because we are so tied in now, Its going to be a bump ride.

Interflug/JB – are you able to name any other grouping of nation states which have ceded power to a centrally unelected bureaucracy to manage their affairs? There are dozens of examples of nations alone or in loose trading alliances managing very well. I do not see the need for the EU.

I am open to be proved incorrect but I think that about 50% of the laws and regulations under which we operate are no longer made by our sovereign parliament. Is that not specific enough?

The UK politicians are too busy destroying the UK defense industry and military to actually govern and make laws. 😀
That’s why they like the EU…let them make the laws.
So what do UK politicians/MPs do? :rolleyes::D:eek:

For me it is not so much that some of our laws are drafted in euroland,it is more the huge cost of running needless layers of government/hangers on etc.
As I and others have said before also the EU has become too large and absorbed too many inefficient/bankrupt/corrupt countries,it was bad enough with farming subsidies back in the 70’s/80’s but now the whole thing is a wasteful mess/financial black hole.
The question may not be ‘what would happen if we withdraw’…it might be ‘what will happen if we dont withdraw’.

rgds baz

In answer to Linc – I was speaking from personal experience about the way EU largesse was being spent in one of its poorer fringe members. I was not talking about UK money being wasted here – that’s another debate.

Interflug/JB – are you able to name any other grouping of nation states which have ceded power to a centrally unelected bureaucracy to manage their affairs? There are dozens of examples of nations alone or in loose trading alliances managing very well. I do not see the need for the EU.

I am open to be proved incorrect but I think that about 50% of the laws and regulations under which we operate are no longer made by our sovereign parliament. Is that not specific enough?

The referendum case is usually justified for changes to our constitution. The referendum being proposed for Scottish indeoendence is just such a case. Our constitution is totally unaffected by our membership of NATO and the UN. Even UN resolutions committing us to deploy troops in anger are debated in Westminster.

Our constitution has already been affected by our membership of the EU in that a large percentage of laws and regulations which affect the day to day lives of all of us are not debated and made in Westminster but determined in Brussels.

But how are they determined? Is it by an acceptable process? The argument that they aren’t made in this country could be made for any given area.

‘Why should people in England get a say in Welsh matters?’ says a man in Cardiff. So Wales declares independence.
‘Why should people in Swansea get a say in what happens in Cardiff?’ he continues, so Cardiff becomes a city state. etc, etc. The question becomes, where do we draw the line?

The Laws may not have been debated in London, but British MEPs have debated on them, just somewhere else, with colleagues representing constituents elsewhere, what is so wrong about this? Are other people in western Europe so very different? Are there any examples out there of EU law directly harming the UK, if they are so terrible?

Lincoln7, I notice you said that until we joined the EU, things were going well here in the UK, I take it you mean that every subsequent problem the country has faced has been caused by the EU? Care to elaborate?

I don’t want to sound sarcastic with any of these questions, really I don’t, I just want to get some specifics to discuss. I don’t pretend for a minute the EU is perfect or anywhere near, but I don’t think that leaving it would do us any good, far from it!

You can also leave the EU, there are specific, unambiguous provisions for it in the Treaty of the European Union:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_from_the_European_Union

😉

Difference between the EU and NATO?

Seems like ‘you’ (France) can leave NATO…..

Pete, Why go all the way to Ireland for that info?. It’s been going on here for years, Hospitals, Police Forces etc, If they don’t spent their alloted annual amount dished out be the Government, they will get less the next Financial year..
For what my two pennerths worth, we manages quite O.K. after the last war, and did until…………………………………………………Lets get out of it.
Jim.

Lincoln .7

At the height of the Euro-madness when the fringe countries were benefitting from Brussels’ largesse, I visited a company in Ireland which, along with most of the others tempted there by extravagant EU grants, was rapidly expanding its premises.

A huge warehouse had appeared since my previous visit and as we had been discussing stockholding of products I was intrigued by the scale of the building. “Ah, yes” came the reply. “We were making an application for our second 3 year grant, but had not spent all of the first so we had to commit and spend that money before we could get anymore”.

Just about sums it all up, doesn’t it?

[QUOTE=Interflug62M;1762696]

its not all down to the ‘dear old EU’ I’m afraid. And as for the old ‘it ain’t democratic guv’ give me a break

Always easy to spot the ‘pro’ and ‘anti’ brigade LOL,I am astounded though that quite a few people are happy for billions of there hard earned to be squandered in euroland,governments rely on naivety to get away with financial murder !!

its the clowns responsible for the currency’s economic wellbeing both in its home country

Agree

and more importantly on the worlds markets, that is at the centre of this debacle

Partly agree…but obviously in your parallel universe then the EU are absolutely blameless.
I would have thought that any ruling body wanting to adopt Greece would automatically be considered Dumb…the Greeks have been bankrupt/corrupt as far back as I can remember.
And as others have said …the PIGS might well come home to roost !!

IMO, to ignore the financial aspects of economic factors outside of the EU, is to deliberately avoid a very major part of the argument

I am not ignoring them but it is only part of the problem,as I said earlier – this problem has not occurred overnight,the EU have to shoulder a large portion of the blame because they adopted greece – knowing full well their financial habits and history

rgds baz

And of course we are being obliged to lob money we do not have, courtesy of our membership of the EU.

Time will tell and there are differing opinions on the vulnerability of the US, but, as you say, the sound of rubbing hands from the Far East is distinctly audible.