Immigration the Election and my Girlfriend

I live in an area that up until 1999 was in the context of living in or near any city of a similar size rather quite and peaceful.

In the ensuring 6 years, over 3,000 eastern European migrants/immigrants (local council figures) have been resettled in my area.

The figures for burglary have increased by 18%, car theft, and 34% attacks/muggings 57%. The local police have admitted they cannot cope; we now have a problem with drugs in this area.

The ONE common denominator is the 3000 eastern Europeans recently ‘moved’ in. I was not asked if I want them, they have travelled half way across Europe, ignoring other countries such as Germany, Italy, France, Spain, and Holland.

These people were forced upon my community, we were not asked. And before you give me the old chestnut, I’m racist, I’m married to an Indian girl who happens to have been born in our community and raised and shares the same horror and fear that other “whites” do.

DON’T PREACH TO THOSE OF US WHO HAVE TO LIVE WITH YOUR WIMS.

Get over it- things happen. 3000 people from elsewhere in England couldve moved in and you’d have the same problems….

Maybe there was a reason those people were relocated- you’d rather they stayed where they were and starved or been killed? They should live terrible lives because you don’t want your quiet being disturbed? Poor you. Would you like some cheese with your whine?

What’s a “WIM”? :confused:

?

I live in an area that up until 1999 was in the context of living in or near any city of a similar size rather quite and peaceful.

In the ensuring 6 years, over 3,000 eastern European migrants/immigrants (local council figures) have been resettled in my area.

The figures for burglary have increased by 18%, car theft, and 34% attacks/muggings 57%. The local police have admitted they cannot cope; we now have a problem with drugs in this area.

The ONE common denominator is the 3000 eastern Europeans recently ‘moved’ in. I was not asked if I want them, they have travelled half way across Europe, ignoring other countries such as Germany, Italy, France, Spain, and Holland.

These people were forced upon my community, we were not asked. And before you give me the old chestnut, I’m racist, I’m married to an Indian girl who happens to have been born in our community and raised and shares the same horror and fear that other “whites” do.

DON’T PREACH TO THOSE OF US WHO HAVE TO LIVE WITH YOUR WIMS.

I don’t like where this country is going. It’s very sad. Were becoming what we tried to leave behind….

Why do we care about this, Sean? 😀

Anyway……they could just buy push-bikes instead, couldn’t they? :p

Congress just made it that much harder to both a) be an illegal living in the US, and b) be an illegal trying to get into the US.

That Iraq funding bill that passed?

Here’s some of the interesting add-ons:

“The measure requires states to start issuing more uniform driver’s licenses and verify the citizenship or legal status of people getting them. It also toughens asylum laws, authorizes the completion of a fence across the California-Mexican border and provides money to hire more border security agents.”

That’s a start.

duxfordhawk – people’s opinions are often based on personal experiences, or the experiences of those they know. The experiences many of us have had with immigrants have been bad; ask many people in Norfolk/Suffolk/Northants/Kent who seem to have had the majority of the bad apples dumped on their doorstep. So naturally opinions go against *all* immigration which leads to people playing the race card.

As an immigrant in said area, Damien, it was your country’s foreign policy which cost me my country. So now YOU can flipping well give me a new one! Live with it mate we are now part of your life. We didn’t want it, you created it. Maybe if the locals weren’t so hostile towards us, you would have better experiences with us? My “bad” experiences have been unprovoked acts from locals. Such as yours………. :diablo:

The people who are responsible for the loss of jobs are the companies sending them abroad, not the illegals who clean toilets and pick crops.

Since when are you against outsourcing? 😀

The issue of illegal immigration stems from racism. And I say that because every so called “solution” is nothing but a way to punish people for coming here.

We don’t want to punish everyone for coming here. We want to punish and prevent people from doing it illegally. There is a difference there. Personally, one of my gripes with illegals is that they do not contribute their fair share. They pay no taxes. If the government has to take my money, and I defend said government, then surely they should be taking taxes from everyone else working here. Then there’s the issue of idiotic “sanctuary cities”. Some cities in the US, like Austin, TX, don’t report the crimes of illegals to the FBI. Plus, if an illegal is deported , and they reenter in a sanctuary city (of which NYC and LA are two as well), they cannot be arrested (coming back is a felony after being deported) until they commit a crime.

Our quality of life is a hundred times better than theirs and if all we can do is attack and punish them from wanting something even remotley similar to that- then we can be classed as nothing but ignorant racists.

There’s nothing wrong with them wanting to come here because our quality of life is light years better than what they have in their own country. I’d just have them do it under an approved, legal system. A guest worker program is a good idea. It documents everyone, and allows us to control the amount of people crossing the border (not that we’re overcrowded because of immigrants or anything, but the government should have the right to control immigration if the need arises).

They don’t affect our lives or take anything away from us. We benefit from their existence.

That is debatable. They’re a drain on the California health care system, and we lose loads of money on them since they don’t have to pay taxes.

If every immigrant was booted out, SOC- would you even notice?

Sure. I wouldn’t hear about it on the damn news or this forum all the time 😀

A resolution to the “problem” of illegal immigration must come from Washington- and Mexico City. Not from vigilantes who only want blood, or white middle classers who only want to rid their neighborhoods of the “wetbacks”. Or even the Mexicans themselves, who only want a job, so they can provide for their families.

Good luck getting Washington to do anything on this, by the way. Guess what happens if you make them legal workers? They have to be paid minimum wage. And that’ll be a huge pain for companies employing a lot of these workers. And that means they’ll be less likely to vote for the party that hurt them financially. Plus, any sort of action will affect the minority vote in some way, and that’s often a major factor in local and national elections as well.

By the way, SOC- speeding is illegal and “against the law” as well. You never go over the speed limit?

Actually I have trouble staying under the speed limit myself… However, the fact that one person breaks the law is not a valid excuse for someone else to do the same.

I love you to death, SOC- but ah, well- you’re wrong. 😉

Now you’re just being asinine. I am never wrong, you should have figured that out by now :p

Sean- I agree that reform must come from within; but these people have to worry about feeding their families; that may be more important than getting shot by the native militias or getting shot by the corrupt police or politicians when they go to the capital to demand reform. Reform is a slow slow process. Vicente Fox isnt St. Jude; but he is making some headway. Governor Napolitano (D-AZ) is also working with the Mexican Administration to improve. Until things do improve, however, people will still be desperate for work, and will still come here illegaly. What would you have us do? Round them up, send them back, electrify the border fence and close our eyes and plug our ears to the situation? Wake up- SOC, it isn’t going to happen!

A guest worker program is an absolute neccessity to curbing illegal immigration! And the only way Washington will wake up and get their butts in gear is if these ridiculous groups that do nothing but wring their hands and push through ridiculous propositions or turn the border into a big game hunt, write their letters and call their representatives and demand something sensible. But they’ll never do that- because thats not what they really want, is it?

A very small amount of illegal immigrants affect our lives in any way shape or form. Very few ever go on welfare, few hold high paying jobs that Americans are demanding.
And guess what? Most terrorists come here legally and are “model” citizens.

The people who are responsible for the loss of jobs are the companies sending them abroad, not the illegals who clean toilets and pick crops.

The issue of illegal immigration stems from racism. And I say that because every so called “solution” is nothing but a way to punish people for coming here. Our quality of life is a hundred times better than theirs and if all we can do is attack and punish them from wanting something even remotley similar to that- then we can be classed as nothing but ignorant racists. They don’t affect our lives or take anything away from us. We benefit from their existence. If every immigrant was booted out, SOC- would you even notice? You might notice your company restroom is awfully dirty- or your hotel room could definetly be spruced up. But your quality of life certainly wouldn’t improve- unless of course you’ve always wanted to pick cotton in a field at 15:00 with the sun beating down on you?

A resolution to the “problem” of illegal immigration must come from Washington- and Mexico City. Not from vigilantes who only want blood, or white middle classers who only want to rid their neighborhoods of the “wetbacks”. Or even the Mexicans themselves, who only want a job, so they can provide for their families.

By the way, SOC- speeding is illegal and “against the law” as well. You never go over the speed limit? Ever smoke a joint? Ever steal a comic book? Ever run a red light? Drink a beer before you were legal?

Don’t even talk about legality- SOC- that is a very (substituted for ****) poor reason, excuse, and holds no water whatsoever. “But, but but- It’s illegallllllll……” That’s almost as disgusting as using the 2nd amendment to justify private citizens owning semi- automatic weapons. Care to streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch it any further?

I love you to death, SOC- but ah, well- you’re wrong. 😉

Guess what. They’re coming here illegally. As in what they are doing is against the law. That is the overriding factor here. If you want to change the laws, that’s certainly a way to handle the problem. But that doesn’t take away the fact that peole are coming here illegally. And anything which is done illegally, on that massive a scale, should definitely be dealt with. There is absolutely nothing wrong with stopping illegal activity.

And you say that we should go to Congress and petition for immigration reform? Why then should the Mexicans not be expected to go to their government and demand reforms in their own country?

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore.”

Notice that the Statue Of Liberty is placed near Ellis Island. I wonder what sort of activity took place there? Couldn’t have been legal immigration, could it?

Alright I’m leaving the office to go home in a few minutes, so here’s my last thought on this for tod…er…the next hour or so 😀

Is the problem here with immigration in general, illegal immigrants, both, none of the above, or what? The way I see it, if you enter legally, you should have no problems. If you enter illegally, you should be instantly deported to the continent via catapult. Any citizen of nation X is granted rights under it’s laws. Conversely, anyone who wishes to enter nation X must be bound by the same laws, so the same rights should apply. Now, if you enter illegally, you should get NO rights and NO protection. Unperson! Or something. Arthur knows, he’s another Orwellian fresh out of Room 101. Anyway, before any of you start ranting about how bad it really is, you can’t say crap until you’ve gone to California and seen how jacked up the system is over here. Hell, we’ve even got morons lobbying to put water fountains in the desert of Texas so the poor illegals don’t die of thirst! WHAT THE HELL! Multiculturalism, in my view, is crap as well. EMbrace your own culture. Be respectful of others, and if you want to absorb some of their culture, that’s fine. But forced multiculturalism is asinine. All it’s doing is destroying ethnic and national identities. And I’m going to stop now because I have so totally lost my train of thought.

Oh my god, SOC- you’re killing me here! *looks around for soapbox*

People who immigrate here illegaly do so because they are unable to immigrate legally! What do you think the UK consulate would have said if I had submitted my visa application and told them I had no money; no applicable “skills” and no family in the country? They wouldve laughed me out of the office. But thats exactly what a Mexican immigrant would have to do!

Do you think quality of life in Mexico is so fantastic? You think everything is so peachy that they are just being…what- greedy by coming here? Come on! Put yourself in their shoes and quit whining! 😀 They should live in dirt poor poverty- knowing that a few hundred miles to the north there are jobs!? Jobs that will allow them to send money home to family- so they can eat or have medical attention, so the children might be able to go to school, etc! What would you do, SOC- if you were in the same situation, but you knew in Canada you could find work- would you stay here and watch your children starve?

Illegal immigration can be curbed by adopting a sensible guest worker program. With no access to welfare benefits; so the American “freeloaders” don’t have to worry about sharing… Christ- are people so stupid they don’t get that? They have to take their redneck bigot attitudes and their shotguns to the actual border and start assaulting and scaring immigrants and their families instead of taking their concerns to congress and lobbying for smarter immigration?

As far as water in the desert- you’re offended by this? Why? How does that negatively impact you? I live in Arizona, SOC and I’ll tell you there is nothing more heartbreaking than hearing that a 3 year old died of thirst in the desert 100 miles away. Are you saying she deserved that? I highly doubt she chose to make that journey! The water simply helps to avert further tragedy- we can not leave people, children to die in the desert while we scratch our collective asses and procastinate getting something done that makes everybody happy!

And if you think about it, SOC- this country was founded on illegal immigration. I don’t think anyone ever asked the Native Americans if they could come here- did they?

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore.”

But, only if they get a green card, first?

Was sad to see that this debate became a mod bashing exercise.

It looks like some people can’t handle mods being posters; they are posters otherwise they wouldn’t be here. Off duty police officers still speed, security guards have been known be light fingered occasionally, bank mangers have embezzled in the past.

I want to thank people for there nice comment for Lena and me i hope we get to meet some if not all of you at some point soon.

Make sure her parents/family have a computer and stick a webcam on it: saves on the phone bills, I’m told… – Nermal

All the best to you both, duxfordhawk. 🙂

Was sad to see that this debate became a mod bashing exercise.
I want to thank people for there nice comment for Lena and me i hope we get to meet some if not all of you at some point soon.

If you cannot keep to the rules of these forums you have no place moderating them – perhaps you should resign if you are unable to control yourself?

Nice try, Damien.

The only flaw in your otherwise finely reasoned argument is the fact that I’m just an ordinary punter in this Forum, sonny. 😀

Let’s not start moderator bashing again people. Heard it all before. :rolleyes:

We know you couldn’t give a damn. That’s part of the problem. You have this insane belief that Britain owes you the lifestyle you aspire to. It doesn’t. The fact that you wasted your University education on a subject you lost interest in is no-one’s fault but your own. Maybe the career fairy will leave all you desire under your pillow one cold and frosty morning. If not, you’ll just have to do the best you can like the rest of us.

Regards,

kev35

Gee, man, I’m in my 3rd year now in University, knowing I will have some problems finding a job for which I’m suited (historian). It’s quite possible I don’t find my dream job the first years. Therefor, I’m combining my university courses (history) with a basic teachers education. At least I’ll be able to teach children instead of sitting in my couch blaming immigrants why I’m not the next chief commissioner of the EU.

I hope I don’t end as a frustrated “Belgian Beer Specialist” instead of a historian :rolleyes:. I have no problems with people living from social welfare because they can’t get a job, I do hate (and I really use the word hate) people who live from social benefits and are still not satisfied.

Comet, did you know if it wasn’t for people as Amnesty International, people who, unlike yourself, are not as selfish and greedy, you wouldn’t even get social benefits. :confused: :confused: You’d probably fill your days begging for money or as a prostitute infected with all kinds of diseases. Luckily throughout history there have been other people who didn’t think like you, making this all possible for you. 😡

I’m really sickened by your last post.

Well done Comet somebody else who deals in the truth, ignore the rest there either writing it because they think thats the way they should be, or they are JF’s themselves.

I am not sure anyone can call them self a “Pure Britain” if you think of our History is more than lightly everybodies ancestors are from other countries.
To me there is no such thing as a Pure Brit but there is such a thing as pure Bullsh1t.
Picture the scene Everybody who has desendants from other countries goes back to the country there ancestors are from, Could the last person here please turn the light out?.

I would like to thank the people who have said kind words here its nice to see such words,I thought i would be very open with this subject and tell people of the situation Lena and i are in, Love does not choose nationalities or boundaries fear racism and bigotry does.

There were just over 16,000 working visas granted to Indian citizens in 2004, which was more than a 50% increase on the amount issued the previous year.

I have no experience of the IT sector, or knowledge of how many of those entering the UK on working visas are IT professionals. I did, however, work in recruitment for the legal and accountancy professions, albeit it many years ago. I wasn’t aware of many (any?) qualified solicitors from India coming to work here back then, but qualified accountants most certainly were, and still are today. If you add to those the numerous Indian doctors, dentists and those following other career paths, are the numbers coming here to work in IT that significant? Indian news sources I found cited ‘Silicon Valley’ in the USA as being the first destination of choice for many IT grauates (of which it stated there are around 70,000 per year).

The stuff below is worth a read. Whether or not you believe it depends on your political views and opinions, I guess 😀

Managed Migration Programme

* Illegal migration is damaging to both India and the UK. The British Government’s Managed Migration Programme will benefit both countries and help protect the vulnerable.

* Effective managed migration is vital to Britain’s economic and social interest and we recognise India is an important and productive source of the skills we are short of in the UK.

* We encourage legal, managed migration. Migrants make a disproportionate contribution to the wealth of the UK, accounting for 8% of the population but 10% of the gross domestic product – and are 20% more likely to be self-employed.

* But we will be tough on trafficking and those who intend on illegal working.

* Home office research has shown that legal migrants contribute £2.5 billion more in taxes than they consume in services and have little or no adverse affect on the wages or employment levels of the existing population.

* No modern, successful country can afford to adopt an anti-migration policy. It is in our interest to harness the innovation, skills and productivity that new migrants can bring.

* If the UK is to achieve flexibility and sustainable growth, then legal migration as opposed to clandestine working, must be the way forward.

* The primary route for economic migration to the UK is through the work permit scheme.

* Employers in the UK must apply for a work permit for a specific vacancy and demonstrate they cannot fill the post with a domestic worker.

* In India in 2004, we issued 16,527 work permit visas, an increase of 50% over 2003.

* There is also a Highly Skilled Migrant Programme designed to attract top talent to the UK.

The Government’s Five Year Strategy for Asylum & Immigration

* This was published on 8.2.05, and underlines the benefits of migration to the UK but also the importance of effective immigration control. In the strategy, the Prime Minister highlights the expertise of IT and finance professionals from India, and goes on to:

* Acknowledge the economic benefits that migrants bring and reaffirms the UK’s commitment to our international obligations to refugees who need our protection.

* Set out who will be allowed to stay in the UK permanently, and how the criteria will change to carefully control permanent migration to provide long term economic and social benefits.

* Set out how within the next 5 years a fully integrated pre-entry, border and in-country control will be introduced

* Set out the progress we have made in recent years in removing a greater absolute number and a greater proportion of failed asylum seekers.

The UK will continue to welcome economic migration within strict criteria. Visitors, students and migrant workers make a huge contribution to the UK economy. The system we have at present works well but is complex and difficult to understand. The evolving system will be clear, flexible and employer-led.

Steve

p.s. Duxfordhawk: best of luck with everything involving you and your intended. My brother is very happily married to a Polish girl and their 5th anniversary is coming up shortly. They’ve never experienced any problems so I’m sure things will be fine for you too. Saying that, however, they both live and work in Sri Lanka now and for the year before that were in Bagkok!
I guess all of this reflects how the World has changed due to globalisation.

Do try and keep up.

Why do I bother trying to be civil to you, Damien? :rolleyes:

If companies are abusing initiatives like the Fast Track Visa scheme ( and I have no doubt that you are correct in what you say) then surely it is the companies that should be “punished” and not those who grasp an opportunity to improve their economic lot once it is offered to them?

Isn’t that what capitalism is all about?