Invader Crash at Biggin Hill

I’ve only just taken the time to read the recent comments.

Neither has shed any further light on the subject. One is indeed verging on the libellous

Unless anyone has a really good reason for me not to do so, I will close this thread to new entries, but will leave it up in its entirety.

Bruce

Judging by previous comments made on this thread, and I put my tuppence worth in last year as well, I agree that this very contraversial subject should be left alone, as some of you folks have said, relatives of the deceased may be reading this and throwing in unproven allegations isn’t going to help anybody after all this time.

This has got nothing to do with the issues raised over the Invader crash, but I have to say that I once visited a small airshow, which I won’t mention by name, and found the display pilots in the beer tent supping pints, this was only a low key event involving mainly light aircraft, but nevertheless, I was quite surprised. The highlight of the display was a performance by a Spitfire, he landed and I was in the bar when the well known pilot came in, at once he was bombarded with offers of pints, at which point he looked quite appalled and refused and went for a glass of lemonade instead. We were then treated to a liquid fuelled display of barnstorming, it was very hairy too, I was glad to get home in one piece.

Newforest………

Why should his contribution be deleted by the Mod? That smacks of censorship. You (and and I) are entitled to express our opinions, so is he.

Planemike

I didn’t ask for deletion, I challenged his implied allegation of alcohol use prior to flight. His contribution adds nothing of value to the thread, perhaps a spell on the naughty chair under moderation is more appropriate than outright deletion. It is perhaps worthy of note that he has chosen not to reply to the very mild criticism so far, nor clarified his comments at all.
Be lucky
David

From his presence on this Forum, which might have been all of five minutes, I think he has proved his disinterest in the Forum in general and this subject in particular.

By sowing a malicious rumour without the benefit of any evidence, I am surprised that the comments have not received more criticism. Isn’t this called trolling?

Newforest………

Why should his contribution be deleted by the Mod? That smacks of censorship. You (and and I) are entitled to express our opinions, so is he.

Planemike

Coke or Pepsi ? Unless you are certain it was alcohol why raise the inuendo?
I don’t recall any mention of alcohol from the post mortem examinations.
Please think before you post.Be luckyDavid

As the poster has only made one post and has in fact only visited the Forum on the day he posted, I would suggest that his post can be disregarded and in fact I would recommend Mod action in deleting it.;)

I too was there that day & agree with the description of all previous posts…………………………………………………
There are 2 other things I remember with great clarity.

Firstly, the Invader was parked near the entrance to the Air Fair, nose into the crowd. When we walked past it the person who I believe was the pilot was sitting in the nosecone drinking from a can………………………………………….

Jeremy

Coke or Pepsi ? Unless you are certain it was alcohol why raise the inuendo?
I don’t recall any mention of alcohol from the post mortem examinations.
Please think before you post.
Be lucky
David

As you say, all hearsay. I’m not casting doubts at you for one moment, but perhaps this is a sleeping dog best left to lie.

20th September 1980

I have just joined this forum and noticed the discussion about the invader crash at biggin hill on the 21st September 1980. On Saturday the 20th September I attended Stapleford Abbot Airfield for a small warbird airdisplay. This aircraft appeared here and was photographed by myself and a fellow professional photographer Ken Godfrey, who was quite notorious for shots for Whitehouse and other soft porn magazines. Ester Rantzen also was a frequent visitor to Kens buiness dealings, Rose Enterprises. Now what may you ask has this to do with this air crash? Well during our visit to this airshow Ken was invited aboard for the return flight to Duxford from Stapleford Abbot, Ken declined this journey for two reasons. Firstly the starter cartridge for the port engine backfired and caught fire, and whilst the fire services attended to the small resultant fire, which delayed take off for a little time. The pilot was on board openly boasting about the aircrafts ability to roll or loop, in fact Ken insisted that bets were being taken/waged on this very topic. He was put off the flight and never had his trip to Duxford, and hence to Biggin Hill. Now as far as I know this heresay eveidence was put forward by Ken himself, I have since lost touch with Ken primarily due to my Divorce from my first wife, he would now be about 88 years of age if he is still alive. However, he did share this experience with me and as far as I know contacted the police with this evidence after the crash at Biggin Hill.

I do not disbelieve him as I knew him well for many years having married his partners sister in 1974. He had a big character but I cannot say he lied about this. I know much about this guys character and fully believed that he had in fact reported this matter to Chingford Police Station after the crash at Biggin Hill.

The AAIB report is EW/C717 Feb 1981. I still have a nice letter Don Bullock sent to me inviting me to view Sally B,when Euroworld were just starting to organise operating the B-17. He was an experienced and enthusiastic pilot and is not here to defend himself. I maintain that some distraction during the roll caused loss of airspeed. That’s all I am prepared to say on this sad matter.

It is allready clear that there are people reading this whose families were effected by this accident and you post that, what was the point 😡

I edited the earlier post. I trust people will understand why. Sorry I didn’t see it earlier.

Moggy

Invader Biggin Hill Crash

I too was there that day & agree with the description of all previous posts. The Invader came down the runway (right to left)(crowd line) very low & very fast. He then pulled up to about 30 degrees & rolled. When inverted the nose went down , and he went vertically down into the valley. The crowd around us knew exactly what had happened, and there was awed silence. The next display went on immediately ( I think it was a Pitts Special?), & I remember thinking how awful that pilot must have felt. A very sad day.

There are 2 other things I remember with great clarity.

Firstly, the Invader was parked near the entrance to the Air Fair, nose into the crowd. When we walked past it the person who I believe was the pilot was sitting in the nosecone drinking from a can

Secondly, my car was parked on the road at the bottom of the valley & was untouched , even though only about 100 metres from the point of impact.

As I was always being told when learning to fly at Niagara International Airport NY. “There are old pilots & bold pilots, but very few old & bold pilots”

Jeremy

Just for completeness the N number enquiry
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNumSQL.asp?verified=1&NNumbertxt=3710G
Shows it as owned by Duane A EGLI from Texas, who has not replied to the FAA tri-annual ownership update enquiry.
Hope it helps
Be lucky
David

Odd to report that Duane A. Egli is also still shown as the registered owner of an Avro Anson N5054 (ser. no. 293483 according to the FAA) Whereabouts is this being kept? That is a US civil registration not a UK military serial – just to avoid confusion
Any info on the Anson or the owner appreciated.
Be lucky
David
P.S. Has a report ever been published can’t trace it on UK AAIB or US NTSB. ?

Biggin Hill crash

Hello, I have just joined the forum and would like to add that CMSGT Don Thompson was also on the A26 fligt that day. He was my wifes uncle. We are trying to find were he was buried. If anyone wants to contact us we will gladly verify any questions. We would like to know as much as we can. My wife was 13 at the time and she took the phone call that day saying that he had died in the plane crash. Don Thompson was the engineer we believe, we have one photo of him and Don Bulloch in front of the A26 engine before the crash. Please help.

Thanks

Just for completeness the N number enquiry
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNumSQL.asp?verified=1&NNumbertxt=3710G
Shows it as owned by Duane A EGLI from Texas, who has not replied to the FAA tri-annual ownership update enquiry.
Hope it helps
Be lucky
David

The FAA records are notorious for having a/c no longer around lingering on for many years after they’re gone. A-26 N71Y is still on the register. The a/c was impounded in Bogota in the mid- 70s, and scrapped in the late 90s. P-51D N5073K was “ferried” south of the border to El salvador in 1969. Came back with a different # years later. P-51D N7712C crashed in the late 50s, both are still on USCAR!

T J

This struck me as a strange fact: as this aircraft was totally destroyed in the sad Biggin Hill crash, why is it still listed as ‘current’ on the register, according to this website?

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/N3710G.html

Tillerman.

Just for completeness the N number enquiry
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNumSQL.asp?verified=1&NNumbertxt=3710G
Shows it as owned by Duane A EGLI from Texas, who has not replied to the FAA tri-annual ownership update enquiry.
Hope it helps
Be lucky
David

Don Bullock

Hi I knew Don Bullock well from the 60’s in Africa and then again when i flew my L4 cub to Biggin Hill.

What was the outcome of the crash.

I suppose noone will ever know

My memory tells me that both the B25, and Sally B flew their displays after the accident. Maybe it was because I had witnessed what I had, but both aircraft seemed to be stood on their wingtips at 0 feet.

I too have similar memories of the Sally B display that afternoon – I remember a couple of moments when she was flown very low across the valley, into which the A26 had crashed earlier, at very low level, causing a few anxious gasps among the crowd who obviously feared they were about to witness another accident. Rightly or wrongly there certainly seemed no attempt to “soften” the display in response to the earlier accident.

Please note, I am not in any way saying Sally B was displayed in a reckless or unsafe manner, merely that the display was flown as “normal” (based on previous experience of watching Sally B displays), it was still very low at times, and made some use of the natural valley at the western end of the display line. Whether this was indeed the case, and whether continuing as normal in light of the afternoon’s earlier events was a good or bad thing, has no doubt been debated at length before.

Paul F

It rather depends on what you are about to tell us.

If you can keep it factual without opinion or surmise I am sure we would all be interested.

It is possible that friends and relatives of those on board could read this thread, please keep that at the front of your mind as you post

Moggy
Moderator

What I will do is relate the events as I remember them. I will not offer any opinions.

At the time one of my best friends was Nigel Rose. His father was Maurice Rose who, I believe worked for a company called Autair (or Altair) UK. As I understand it they owned and operated the A26. Again, my understanding is that it was based at Duxford, and USAF personnel helped to maintain it.

Nigel phoned me the week before the show and asked me if I would like to go. He told me that we would go as ground crew attached to the A26 and this way we would not be restricted to the public areas. For someone who is interested in old aircraft this was an opportunity indeed.

We went to Biggin very early that morning, and it was pretty deserted when we got there. To be able to go over the aircraft was a thrill in itself. Nigel and I were asked to do a bit of work, and this involved pumping the nose wheel up to pressure (70 psi if I remember correctly). All we had to do this with was a double cylinder footpump.

Later that morning Don Bullock arrived, and I was introduced to him. Shortly afterwards another person Peter Warren also arrived in his Saab 900, and was joined by two USAF groundcrew. One I believe was a middle aged sergeant, and the other was younger but had no rank badges. Tragically Peter, and the USAF personnel were also on board the aircraft later that day.

I was told (I can’t remember who by) that there was a spare seat on the aircraft for the display, and I was asked if I wanted to fly.

By a series of coincidences I had recently obtained a 200mm telephoto lens for my old Practica SLR. As a result I spen a lot of time taking pictures, and by the time I got back to the A26 the engines were running, and the hatches were shut.

The rest is known. I was taking pictures of the Sea Hawk at the time
and I did not see the crash. I heard a dull crump and looked towards the valley beyond the end of the runway. Due to where we were, and the way the ground fell away what I saw was a large grey ball flecked with orange.

It took a few moments to work out which aircraft was missing, and then there was a growing sense of disbelief.

I only have only set of 24 slides left from the show. The rest were in my coat that was locked in Peter Warren’s car. I got
he coat back about a year later, but the films were not there.

In deferenct to the fact that people who knew or were related to the victims of the crash i have restricted this to the essential facts.

One last point, one of the contributors has metioned the fact that the way the A26 was flown appeared unnecessarily risky. My memory tells me that both the B25, and Sally B flew their displays after the accident. Maybe it was because I had witnessed what I had, but both aircraft seemed to be stood on their wingtips at 0 feet.

If you want any further information this can be provided.

The original A-26 Pilot’s Manual says that aerobatics are forbidden on this aircraft, or words to that effect. I haven’t got the book to hand.

All warbird owners and pilots should be required to read Anthony J Mireles three volume set, Fatal Army Air Forces Aviation Accidents in the United States 1941-1945. A grim and sobering read which should engender a healthy respect for all the things that can go wrong in what, at the time, were almost new aircraft. Especially if you push your luck …

Summaries, some very detailed, of well over 6,000 accidents.