Israel/Lebanon Situation (Merged)

Tell you one thing the israeils sure know how to make them selves heard. High profile action, Mind you if them solders head for iran, thats gonna be a s**t storm.

just how far will this go and will the UN step in to stop these attacks because it could cause a huge war in the region now that syria has started bad mouthing Israel again.

There is hardly any reason to worry about “a huge war.” The Syrian regime couldn’t even respond when the Israelis made a supersonic flypast over the Bashir Assad’s villa!

I really have to wonder whether the Syrians have a single operational interceptor?

I don’t want to seem pretentious or anything, but I’ve been thinking and saying (writing) that for some time now.

Heavy units cost a fortune to operate and maintain in the field. This is the same mistake, that the USA has made in Iraq. When any foot soldier hears a tank coming down the road, they will simply hide and wait. 155mm artillery shells cost alot of money. A well dug in sniper, will do much more damage, than a barrage of artillery, looking for a handful of mobile terrorists on the move. Artillery is very effective against large groups of ground soldiers and organized units located on a grid. It is too expensive, to use on three or four terrorists.

A couple of WAGs of mine: To reduce enemy ground mobility, isolate enemy units and personnel, block potential supply- and escape routes, intimidate whoever needs to be intimidated etc.

These are among the objectives I think the Israelis hope to achieve. I do however fail to see the full value of such interdiction operations against civilian infrastructure when there is, as far as I know, basically no “conventional” military forces to strike at. Does the Hizbollah possess cavalry, IFVs, field artillery, aircraft etc.? Do they depend on e.g. light vehicles for transport, supplies and so on? Does the Hizbollah really rely that much on Lebanese infrastructure? Is it really worth the effort and the collateral damage to employ such force in order to get at an opponent like the Hizbollah?

Hizbollah is dispersed, orders have already been given, and supplies are pre-positioned etc… Their will be no juicy targets of Hizbollah waiting to be hit.
Hizbollah will ride out the Israeli conventional airstrikes, artillery barrages, and movement into S. Lebanon, to strike when it is advantageous on their terms.
They will be able to move to the other side of a destroyed bridge.

My point exactly. If they (the Hizbollah) are determined and capable enough, they might be able move, carry out attacks, retreat and resupply without the use of local infrastructure. Although they might be less effective that way; is it really worth it to escalate the situation the way Israel has done? I realize that the Hizbollah initiated this recent clash by committing a highly condemnable act, but are they the only part treading on bad ground right now?

As stated earlier, I think that the term intimidation is a possible part of the equation. Is (what may seem to be) collective punishment a part of Israeli military doctrine? Is it just? I’m not so sure about that.

Hitting the civilian infrastructure, may help put pressure on the government or the ones in power. I do not think the Lebanese control their own country. The civilian infrastructure that should have been hit, is located immediately to the east of Lebanon (Syria). Syria controls Lebanon. It is Syria and Ehrahn, that have given Hezbollah the green light, to kidnap the two Israeli soldiers inside of Israel.

All Hezbollah actions, are followed directly by Syrian intelligence agents. Damascus has the power, to control any Hezbollah operation. Intimidation and collective punishment, will not move Hezbollah in the least bit. Only clandestine stealth Israeli tactical squads, backed up by gunships, striking in and around Lebanon, for (many) years to come, will move Hezbollah in the least bit.

Its repairable but utter poison to a country which has been rebuilding its image and redeveloping its tourism industry.

I dont think the UN will be able to stop them its self defence in a way.

The crater looks quite big and my guess is they used LGBs.

Last time I checked, Hizbollah themselves admitted kidnapping two Israeli soldiers inside Israeli territory. Kinda seems like the bloody Hizbollah terrorists, burped the wrong note on purpose ?

Hizbollah threatened to “transfer” the two Israeli hostages to Iran.

Is it any wonder that Israel took out the runway at Beirut’s airport?

I just wonder how they initially diabled the runway? Media reports mentioned as many as half a dozen “rockets” during the first successful strike? Did they use unguided runway cratering munitions? Conventional laser guided bombs? It would seem that 76mm naval gunfire wouldn’t do very much damage to a concrete runway, although taking out the fuel storage tanks would seems like a brilliant move.

You really have to give the Israelis credit for the correct – and spectacular – use of airpower. When the Israeli’s took down Gaza’s only power generating facility, they did it one transformer at a time. When Hamas made the first ransom demand, the Israelis answered by putting a Hellfire missile right through their conference room!

Does anyone know what missiles were used against the Beirut Airport runways?

watching the news tonight, the israeli bombs dropping on beirut airport and Apaches causing havoc, it made me think… i just can not understand how the rest of the world just sits back and observes… can you just imagine if it was say North Korea doing the same to South Korea or Iran bombing Kuwait. i wonder then if we would just sit back then…. unbelivable.. them Israelis can really get away with murder cant they…

North Korea bombing South Korea

Iran bombing Kuwait

Israel bombing Lebanon

Hey mate ! Your only two examples, are 2/3 of the Axis of Evil members ! Don’t forget that Israel is a multi-party democracy. Please try not to put Israel in the same boat as North Korea with it’s nepotistic military dictatorship that starves it’s own people, and the Shia entity (east of Iraq), with their corrupt oppressive fundamentalist theological oligarchy.

_________

Hizbollah admitted kidnapping two Israeli soldiers inside of Israeli territory.

That is why the rest of the free democratic world, just sits back and lets Israel clean up the mess.

Think Israel is still the aggressor ? LOL – Please kindly read again , the first sentence below the line.

Israel has got away with it many times in the past.. so what is different now.. the whole world “almost” took up arms against Iraq when it invaded Kuwait. is there as we speak B-52s or aircraft carriers heading towards Isreal… not the last time i looked.. its as if some countrys can get away with murder, while others only have to burp the wrong note and they have the world breathing down there throat.. not right is it….

Last time I checked, Hizbollah themselves admitted kidnapping two Israeli soldiers inside Israeli territory. Kinda seems like the bloody Hizbollah terrorists, burped the wrong note on purpose ?

Israel has got away with it many times in the past.. so what is different now.. the whole world “almost” took up arms against Iraq when it invaded Kuwait. is there as we speak B-52s or aircraft carriers heading towards Isreal… not the last time i looked.. its as if some countrys can get away with murder, while others only have to burp the wrong note and they have the world breathing down there throat.. not right is it….

Israel lebannon situation!

Israel is looking pretty determined on getting its soldiers back by enforcing an air naval and land blockade of lebannon.as i type this right now Israeli warplanes are heading for Beruit as reported by a British news reporter who was on air just now and you could hear the jets overhead.also another reporter stated that Beruit airport is under fire from Israeli naval vessels and that they have destroyed oil storage tanks at the airport also!just how far will this go and will the UN step in to stop these attacks because it could cause a huge war in the region now that syria has started bad mouthing Israel again.

I know this could be a dodgy topic but it deserves to be mentioned!

One does not fight terrorism (for the long term) with heavy units.

I don’t want to seem pretentious or anything, but I’ve been thinking and saying (writing) that for some time now.

Why is Israel blowing up bridges ?

A couple of WAGs of mine: To reduce enemy ground mobility, isolate enemy units and personnel, block potential supply- and escape routes, intimidate whoever needs to be intimidated etc.

These are among the objectives I think the Israelis hope to achieve. I do however fail to see the full value of such interdiction operations against civilian infrastructure when there is, as far as I know, basically no “conventional” military forces to strike at. Does the Hizbollah possess cavalry, IFVs, field artillery, aircraft etc.? Do they depend on e.g. light vehicles for transport, supplies and so on? Does the Hizbollah really rely that much on Lebanese infrastructure? Is it really worth the effort and the collateral damage to employ such force in order to get at an opponent like the Hizbollah?

Can a bunch of fighters with AK 47s, find another way accross a dry bridge ?

My point exactly. If they (the Hizbollah) are determined and capable enough, they might be able move, carry out attacks, retreat and resupply without the use of local infrastructure. Although they might be less effective that way; is it really worth it to escalate the situation the way Israel has done? I realize that the Hizbollah initiated this recent clash by committing a highly condemnable act, but are they the only part treading on bad ground right now?

As stated earlier, I think that the term intimidation is a possible part of the equation. Is (what may seem to be) collective punishment a part of Israeli military doctrine? Is it just? I’m not so sure about that.

Israel must be prepared to continually attack both Hamas and Hezbollah for many years.

The wheel keeps spinning. Isn’t it a wonderful world we live in, you guys?

Pardon for any incorrect assumptions in this post.

watching the news tonight, the israeli bombs dropping on beirut airport and Apaches causing havoc, it made me think… i just can not understand how the rest of the world just sits back and observes… can you just imagine if it was say North Korea doing the same to South Korea or Iran bombing Kuwait. i wonder then if we would just sit back then…. unbelivable.. them Israelis can really get away with murder cant they…

I’m pretty much fed of this discussion, so all my adversors, good night, see you later…A good eternity struggles like these in few times a your keeps your mind clear…

So do I want to say something to the end?? Perhaps but what’s the point? You Israeli suporters are just too busy to “kill terrorist” with your mouths foaming…Have a nice war, hope you kill lots of arabs, you’ve got over 70 in your list already and I’m pretty sure you will end in few thousand so I think you all gona get your cypershare of blood spoiled…And what comes to those three POWs, well hope they manage and can celebrate with everone else their precious freedom’s cost…

What would change yours?

When Israel and palestinians will live in peace and happiness :rolleyes: 😉

So can Israel…

I agree.

I already mentioned in another recent post, that giving does not work (when it comes to the reality on the ground in the M.E. today). Heavy units and fast airpower, are not the answer for Israel.

Israel needs to put tactical boots on the ground. – Light infantry units, that will be backed up by attack helicopters. One does not fight terrorism (for the long term) with heavy units. Why is Israel blowing up bridges ? Can a bunch of fighters with AK 47s, find another way accross a dry bridge ? Israel must be prepared to continually attack both Hamas and Hezbollah for many years.

When you have an informal cease fire with any terrorists, they will simply regroup and resupply, and attack again when it is convenient for them. What happened to the V.C., after the Tet Offensive of 1968 ? We saw today, that Hezbollah sent many more Katyusha rockets at Israel, than it could in the recent past.

Negotiating with terrorists, or giving them a brief respite from hostilities, will only play into the hands of the terrorists. Giving away more Israeli territory, has proven itself to be a complete failure. I already mentioned, that Israel had far more security under Shamir, than it did under Peres. Flex297 just wrote that Arab democracy is a failure ! With Arab democracy being a failure (and with nothing over the horizon, but military dictatorships, monarchies, and religious fundamentalist oligarchies), it makes no sense to strengthen today, any of these corrupt oppressive regimes. Face it. – The Middle East is NOT W. Europe and N. America. Give nothing back, and hit them with precision light units.

Seems like the Syrians had better quit supporting terrorist people like Hezbollah and whoever else because the Israelis are getting ever more serious by the day.

Once the IDF/AF decides to strike within Syria’s borders there isn’t much that Syria can do about it. I hope the head folks in Damascus have considered that fact. You don’t stop the IDF/AF.

The Israelis won’t likely invade Syria I wouldn’t think, but with the IDF/AF already hitting a Lebanese air base and the Beirut International Airport, the idea of them wiping out a few SyAF bases isn’t that far out of the question given Syria’s support of terrorist groups.

All of a sudden the North Korean situation has been swept by the wayside…..this is some serious stuff going on in the Mid-East.

Because besides being a Lebanese party and holding seat in the Lebanese parliament, Hizbullah also has a member in the Lebanese government, the minister for Water and Energy, the most esteemed Mohammad Fneish

So one minister?? Doesen’t really sound majority (which is required so that one party can pull the strings)…

Tell that to Mr. Fneish. Or Mr Siniora, who according to the above link ‘was “proud” of Hizbullah’s chief representative Mohammad Fneish’s participation in the ministry’. Did someone say RESPONSIBILITY?

?? Tell what? That we have an army?? Did you quoted the right sentences???

But my point was, why Is Israel shouting that an independent nation is attacking towards them?

Because besides being a Lebanese party and holding seat in the Lebanese parliament, Hizbullah also has a member in the Lebanese government, the minister for Water and Energy, the most esteemed Mohammad Fneish

The only difference is that we actually have an army and working government to drive that kind of mob out of our southern parts (hope that they causes as much structual damage to the estates of people of Espoo :p ) where as Lebanon doesen’t…

Tell that to Mr. Fneish. Or Mr Siniora, who according to the above link ‘was “proud” of Hizbullah’s chief representative Mohammad Fneish’s participation in the ministry’. Did someone say RESPONSIBILITY?

Hizbollah can change their methods, and look for a peaceful approach.

So can Israel…

7 Israeli soldiers have been killed, 2 abducted in an unprovoked attack by a political party operating out of Lebanon. Israel’s sole obligation is to its soldiers and citizens, not to make heads or tails of Lebanon’s internal problems. What would you have it do? Sit idly by and accept Hizbullah’s blackmail? No, this is where the Lebanese government makes it choices, weak or not. Israel will not sit idly by and allow itself to be blackmailed by the Hizbullah simply because the Lebanese government has its problems. This is not someone else’s problem – you are the sovereign, you bear the resposibility. Return the soldiers or face the Israeli retrebution. Can’t? RESIGN

But my point was, why Is Israel shouting that an independent nation is attacking towards them?

From YLE (And don’t worry mods, I will provide direct translation)
– Tämän aamun tapahtumat eivät ole terrori-isku, vaan itsenäisen valtion työtä, joka hyökkäsi Israeliin ilman mitään syytä, Olmert sanoi

Translated: This mornings attacks are not acts of terrorism, but act of war from independent nation which has attacked agaisnt Israel with out any reason, says Olmert

Do you have a 2,000 strong army that takes it’s orders from a different
nation and control southern Finland without the Finish army being allowed
to the region?

The only difference is that we actually have an army and working government to drive that kind of mob out of our southern parts (hope that they causes as much structual damage to the estates of people of Espoo :p ) where as Lebanon doesen’t…