Just heard on Fox News that a 19 year old Israeli soldier has been kidnapped by Palestinian militants near Gaza. The Israeli PM is attempting to get the authorization for a massive military operation to get the captured soldier back.
Apparently the militants used some type of tunnel to get into Israel and capture this guy.
I’m praying for the soldier’s safe return….
If anyone hears anything about this story please post updates. I just saw it on TV.
By: SOC - 29th June 2006 at 23:10
It’s about balance partly, I imagine. If Egypt was still tooling around with old tanks and MiG-21s and Israel started a major modernization, they might be more tempted to strike before they felt it was too late?
At any rate what’s to stop some group of serious hawks from takingover in Israel and deciding to rid themselves of threats and attacking Syria and Egypt themselves?
By: worthyone - 29th June 2006 at 23:07
Hey SOC, just a question. I know the US is not offically Israel’s ally, but Israel is probably the most stable in the region. So what the hell are u guys doing supplying Egypt, a potential aggressor of Israel, with Apaches, F-16s, frigates and M1 Abrams MBT’s? :confused:
Yes I know Egypt has changed a lot in recent years but there is a chance, regardless of how slight, that history could repeat itself. I mean I’m not saying u have a poor taste in friends or anything but look what happened to Iran :rolleyes:
By: worthyone - 29th June 2006 at 23:02
Well, Kfadrat I admire ur passion but as much as I hate agreeing with the Yanks he is talking sense. Ur talking about potentially entering a war of attrition with one of the most highly trained and well equipped air forces, armies and navies in the world. I’m not saying ur countrymen will just swept aside, I can imagine ur guys will put up a fight, but in the end do u really have the military power to take on Israel?
By: SOC - 29th June 2006 at 22:59
and you know that by sitting in your ivory tower in the states and reading Israeli web sites right???
He does have a point if you just look at it on paper. In terms of technology, the Israeli military is in fact well ahead of Syria in a lot of areas, namely SAMs, aircraft, and airborne missiles.
The only F-104s in the region were US supplied to Jordan (last time I checked, an Islamic country).
So much for the theory that the US only aids Israel….
We provide aid or sell weapons to Egypt, the UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, Jordan, and Turkey…
By: J Boyle - 29th June 2006 at 21:56
Regarding J79 engines, those were taken from F-4 Phantoms……not F-104 Starfighters.
The F-104 also never served in the IDF/AF.
The only F-104s in the region were US supplied to Jordan (last time I checked, an Islamic country).
So much for the theory that the US only aids Israel….
By: kfadrat - 29th June 2006 at 21:40
To think the Syrians stand a chance against the Israelis is laughable. The Syrian armed forces is a joke compared to the IDF and IDF/AF.
and you know that by sitting in your ivory tower in the states and reading Israeli web sites right???
By: PhantomII - 29th June 2006 at 21:15
Regarding J79 engines, those were taken from F-4 Phantoms……not F-104 Starfighters. The Kfir uses modified J79-GE-17 engines, from IDF/AF F-4E’s I believe.
The F-104, most variants aside from the S, used earlier models with less power than that found in the Kfir’s (which after modifications puts out a bit more power than it did in the F-4E I believe).
The F-104 also never served in the IDF/AF.
if nothing else just to change this sterotype the west has about the Israeli abillities!
National pride is one thing, but thinking Syria can stand a chance against Israel is a joke. The IDF/AF itself could deal with the SyAAF quite easily as it has done so in the past as well as wipe out the A/D system which it has done so in the past. The IDF would be left to take on the Syrian Army and that too would be quite the pounding especially since air superiority will be Israeli leaving Syrian ground forces open like sitting ducks.
To think the Syrians stand a chance against the Israelis is laughable. The Syrian armed forces is a joke compared to the IDF and IDF/AF.
By: J Boyle - 29th June 2006 at 21:07
the Liberty was being used by hawks in the Pantagon to start WWIII.
WHY? Do you think all the “hawks” got up one day and decided to kill themselves and their families? In WWIII Washington would have been gone in less than an hour. Dr Stangelove was a satire, not a documentary.
If you want to believe in conspiracies, why not blame the Israel for wanting to pin the blame on the attack on the Egyptians? It might be a good PR move. But if that was their goal, why did they not finish their job..they are usually pretty efficient, and take responsibility for their action?
Plus…did they think they coould keep an attack like that secret from all the intel agencies?
The reason some things go no further than theories (in science as well as history) is becasue they won’t hold up to the evidence or common sense.
By: Gollevainen - 29th June 2006 at 21:02
Look at the number of dead militants compared to dead Israeli soldiers in conflicts among them and I think you’ll see that the militants don’t stand a chance. Of course it never hurts that those idiots also blow themselves up…..makes it that much easier to exterminate them like the cockroaches they are. The best part is when a suicide bomber blows himself up but doesn’t kill anyone. I wonder if he gets his 40 virgins….lol.
Well making any progress? Mean IDF winning the conflict? It has been on, what 40, 50 years??
Malaya, Bolivia and Kenya?
Well, I Knew there where some just on the top of your tongue (like we say in here) 😉 😉
By: J Boyle - 29th June 2006 at 20:59
Since 1949, the USA has not loaned Palestine one dollar.
Wrong. The US was a major financial backer (gifts, not loans) of the Palestinian Authority.
It only suspended payments after the recent election of Hamas.
Also, the US gives Egypt Billions of dollars a year in aid…I believe it’s second only to Israel.
By: worthyone - 29th June 2006 at 20:33
Helldiver, maybe u can clear something up for me? I mean no offense by this but I was always under the impression that the Liberty incident was a setup? Conspiracy theorists have claimed (yes I know what ur probably thinking…”Oh God, he believes conspiracy theorists” but hear me out) that the Liberty was being used by hawks in the Pantagon to start WWIII. The idea was the IDF would sink the Liberty, there would be no survivours…hence the sinking of the lifeboats as u said… and the Israeli’s and Americans could make up a story about the ship being sunk by the Egyptians leading to an American declaration of war and dragging the Soviet Union in to defend its ally in the region at the time.
Also, the fact that the ship was named Liberty would be used to rouse public support for the war. Do u believe this or any other theory or are u pointing the finger squarely at Tel Aviv??? :confused:
By: SOC - 29th June 2006 at 19:51
I think we should pull out of our support of Israel and let them sink by themselves.
I’ve been saying that around here for years!
By: Helldiver - 29th June 2006 at 19:33
I only know that 34 brave U S Navy men serving aboard the USS Liberty were murdered by the Israel Air Force and Torpedo Boats. The ship was a converted merchant ship with a top speed of 5 knots. The Israelis claimed it was going at an aggressive 30 knots. Three life boats were put over with the wounded men aboard. The torpedo boats sank them in violation of the Geneva Conventions.
The Israeli took the engines out of F-104s to put in thier KFIR fighters. This was counter to their agreement with the US in not using the engines for any other use.
Since 1949, the USA has “loaned” Israel 100 Billion Dollars with no repayment in sight. In fact the annual amounts are going up.
Since 1949, the USA has not loaned Palestine one dollar.
You wonder why the Arabs want to blow us up?
I’m 78 years old and served in the Navy flying in SB2Cs so I’ve seen a lot. I think we should pull out of our support of Israel and let them sink by themselves.
By: SOC - 29th June 2006 at 19:25
SOC, you say the raid was overseen by the head of Hamas and yet I have people questioning why I wouldn’t take the Palestinian “government” seriously…..they are terrorists.
There are different factions in Hamas. The “leader” hiding in Syria used one faction, which is unrelated to the political persons now being illegally arrested by the Zionists.
If Bush told Texas to invade Mexico, would you blame and arrest the people in New Hampshire?
By: kfadrat - 29th June 2006 at 19:11
Hopefully Syria doesn’t get too involved in all of this either or they will lose yet another conflict to the Israelis.
actually it’s about time we get involved again, if nothing else just to change this sterotype the west has about the Israeli abillities!
By: kfadrat - 29th June 2006 at 19:02
And why the HELL are children in jail in Israel anyway?
most of them were born there, don’t ask me what their brignant mothers are doing in prison, that’s a matter of democracy and equal treatment in the oasis of democracy in the middle east!
the only sin any Palestinian ever did and which is enough reason for Israelis to kill/impreson him/her is to exsist !!
By: PhantomII - 29th June 2006 at 18:48
Look at the number of dead militants compared to dead Israeli soldiers in conflicts among them and I think you’ll see that the militants don’t stand a chance. Of course it never hurts that those idiots also blow themselves up…..makes it that much easier to exterminate them like the cockroaches they are. The best part is when a suicide bomber blows himself up but doesn’t kill anyone. I wonder if he gets his 40 virgins….lol.
SOC, you say the raid was overseen by the head of Hamas and yet I have people questioning why I wouldn’t take the Palestinian “government” seriously…..they are terrorists. I hope for their sake that the Palestinian civilians can learn this and kick out those militaristic idiots that are representing them.
Until then, nobody, especially Israel, will take them seriously. They are a joke.
Hopefully Syria doesn’t get too involved in all of this either or they will lose yet another conflict to the Israelis.
By: Grey Area - 29th June 2006 at 18:47
Malaya, Bolivia and Kenya? 😉
By: Gollevainen - 29th June 2006 at 18:22
nicly said socsy 😉
Well, one thing is for certain. When the Israeli’s get serious and do military operations, the Palestinians don’t stand a chance.
like in all wonderfull examples when big armyes have actually won their gurellia opponents…like in…in… :confused: funny can’t think of any at the moment, but I’m sure there must be plenty of cases… 😉
By: SOC - 29th June 2006 at 15:58
When the Israeli’s get serious and do military operations, the Palestinians don’t stand a chance.
Unless the Israelis are in tanks, of course.
Their terrorist leaders can complain all they want
The problem is that this raid that resulted in the kidnapping was apparently overseen by the head of Hamas, who is currently in Syria. The Hamas political members, the guys the idiots are arresting, had nothing to do with it and found out about it when the rest of the world did.
But they’re Palestinians and members of Hamas, so they must be guilty, right?
As far as I’m concerned, anyone who shoots into civilian areas in Israel should be wiped out
And anyone who shoots into civillian areas in Palestine should suffer the same fate.
How much better off would the world be had we not decided to back Israel back in the 50s? This is the REAL legacy of the Cold War, not the world’s nuclear arsenals.
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June 26, 2006 at 3:29 pm