Israel/Lebanon Situation (Merged)

That soldier was kidnapped and not captured because he wasn’t fighting. He was just inside a tank, in a military outpost, OUTSIDE of Gaza, well inside the internationally recognized borders of Israel. So yeah, sneaking in in a tunnel to a sovereign country in order to execute an aggresive action and attack people who posed no threat on them (soldiers or civilians) is kidnapping – not capturing.
This is not a matter of a resistance to occupation, as one might say, and it’s not OK since it was an attack against an occuping military force – it was an attack on Israel, on Israeli soil, against Israelis. In that sense, it’s completely wrong.

And then there is the young civilian who is missing and probably has been kidnapped in the West Bank.

How about 10.000 palestinians who are in Israeli torture cells?!! They not civilians?

:rolleyes:

The guy who is in army and inside a tank is a militery person! It does not matter he was sleep or awake had weapon or not!

Actuaöy i do not have sympathy with Palestinians goverment nor with israeli. But what make me feel bad is

The Israeli terrorists enter ghaza kidnap many, kill all family members and we do not hear anything in western media!

then a plastenian suicide bomber enter israel kill 1 innocent then all midea is full of that suicide attack news for 16 months!

U know what Phantom, all I can say is it’s nice to finally meet an American that I can agree with 😉

Soil that once belonged to someone else, entirely…

Must we start with this again? That piece of land has been inhabited by many different peoples over the years, both Arab & Jewish. Israel is there now, and the world recognizes it as a nation with defined borders so just leave it at that. We can go all day about how various people have been kicked out of places ever since mankind has exists. This situation is no different yet you’re treating the Israelis like they are some evil people hell bent on the destruction of the Palestinians. If you want to criticize them just for living there, how about criticizing the Europeans for going to parts of South & Centra America? Or Brits (later American colonists) who moved the Native Americans? It’s happened all over the world……

I certainly go and shoot somebody…

And after your AK-47 shell puts a little srcatch on that IDF Cobra, it cuts your head off with a well aimed burst of 20-mm cannon fire…….

during normal combat while firing his weapon and that is it, end of story, he IS a POW wether you like it or not!.

No, he’s just a prisoner of terrorists. Call him a POW all you want, but I doubt many people will agree with you. He was in Israeli territory when he was captured.

I don’t think this has much to do with Hamas’ victory in the election. As far as I know, surveys indicate that only a minority among the Palestinians actually have such extreme views. Fewer are willing to do anything serious about it

Which brings up my opinion again that the Palestinian people need to get rid of ties to terrorist organizations like the PLO and Hamas. If they ever want to be taken seriously, then they need to sever ties with these orgranizations. Otherwise, they will always be looked upon as nothing more than terrorists….especially by the Israelis. As you can imagine, if Israel wanted to it could kill every single Palestinian person in that region. Have they? No. That’s called restraint. Terrorists on the other hand continue to perform bombings against civilians both Jewish & Arab, and with the Palestinians doing nothing to prevent that……well let’s just say until they do, their cause is a lost one.

I didn’t realise that Palestine is an existing country

It will never be until they kick the terrorists out, and the world can take them seriously.

don’t make me laugh, the dude you are calling a civilian is a student of the military engineering academy!

So all of a sudden going into the United States and killing of all the West Point, Annapolis, and Air Force Academy cadets would be a legal act of war? I doubt the world would share that point of view…stop defending the actions of terrorists. Do you have a PLO, Hamas, or Al-Quaida membership card kfadrat?

Your terror-sponsoring leaders will not be able to sleep at night because of the roar of the Israeli fighter planes over their house, like this morning, over and over again, first as a warning and then as an action.

That’s the way it should be. Every single member of the PLO, Hamas and whoever else should be annihilated. If they continue to perform terrorist acts, they will be weeded out and wiped out eventually. Kfadrat I hope for your sake you turn in your membership card soon. A GBU-12 from an F-16 isn’t the way I’d want to go….

P.S. Sorry for using the word idiot earlier. That’s not the civil way to discuss things, but I tend to get very irritated on this issue.

Mod Edit:[COLOR=Red][FONT=Arial] Kudos to you, PhantomII. GA[/FONT][/COLOR]

[QUOTE=Gollevainen
Just out of curiosity, I would like to hear a real zionist (from your personal signature I assume you are one) giving his version why is it justifyed to take palestinian lands and drove them out of their homes, theat them like cattle and then wonder why they make terrorist attacks agaisnt Israel??[QUOTE]

From what you wrote, I won’t even try, since it is a lost case… :rolleyes:

DeepSpace: at least he called you a “zionist”…I would have expected something stronger. 🙂

Moderator Comment

Viper01 is quite right.

There will be no more warnings.

Respect your fellow members, or post elsewhere.

Your individual choice, gentlemen.

My apologies to the majority of you who are trying to have a serious and mature discussion.

GA

Oh dear, it’s turned ugly…..bound to happen.

The situation in the Gaza Strip, this thread, or both?

Regarding this thread; I think it’s clear that some people need to put away their blinding antagonism and try to stay objective. Using bad names and acting without respect for one another isn’t contributing to anything constructive, hence this thread may spiral into more needless polarization and flaming. By know just about everyone should know what these “discussions” usually lead to. There might not be other warnings.

Oh dear, it’s turned ugly…..bound to happen.

You dumbsh*t

I suggest you familiarize yourself with the content of post no. 24 (Grey Area) in this thread.

Just out of curiosity, I would like to hear a real zionist (from your personal signature I assume you are one) giving his version why is it justifyed to take palestinian lands and drove them out of their homes, theat them like cattle and then wonder why they make terrorist attacks agaisnt Israel??

You might want to read some of the pages in the following discussion for answers:
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=58020

now now, keep the bad language back as each one of us most certainly has loads of them names about the other side, ok, keep it civilized!!

Sorry, but terrorists everywhere ARE sub-humans. Not Arabs, not Palestinians, not Syrians – terrorists. Sub-humans.

now can you explain what’s ” sovereign Israeli territory ” ???? this IS BS and you know it IS, there is NO such thing as a sovereign Israeli territory, 60 years ago there was no such thing as Israel on the first place!

I rest my case. A person like you will describe an attack in the heart of Tel Aviv as legitimate, as it is, after all, “an occupied territory”. You are the kind of person who will never accept any kind of peace in this land. The only peace you and those like you know is the destruction of Israel and the creation of Palestine instead of it – not next to it.
Peace will only happen here when every side will acknowledge the other’s right for the land, which is a homeland for two nation. As such, it has to be partitioned between the two. You are one of the many people who still don’t get it – we have an equal right for this land. Until people like you in the Arab world won’t get it, we’ll continue to kill and be killed.

and to add to that this land where the military post is was occupied in 67 from Egypt, how dare you call it your’s???

No – this outpost is located in Kibbutz Kerem-Shalom – inside the pre-1967 Israeli territory. It is inside the 1949 cease fire line.

HA HA HA HA HA … you really believe this BS your media is loading you with??? well take this:

http://sana.org/eng/22/2006/06/28/43891.htm

and this:

http://sana.org/eng/22/2006/06/28/43940.htm

the president was in Damascus recieving the envoy of the Jordanian King and the Speaker of Lebanese parlement at the same time your stupid media claims he was in Lattakia !!!

same BS happened last time you guys claimed this, your media claimed he was in Lattakia watching the SUPPOSEDLY over flying aircraft while he was in Damascus recieving Saudi – then – crown prince Abdullah!

your arrogance makes you as blind as a wall could be!

The raid was conducted early this morning, probably before dawn – if you have a picture of Assad in his pyjamas in Damascus, I’d like to see it. All of the reports you showed were from the evening.

Well like I said, just for curiosity…sort of trying to understand your opponents, type of stuff…

Just out of curiosity, I would like to hear a real zionist (from your personal signature I assume you are one) giving his version why is it justifyed to take palestinian lands and drove them out of their homes, theat them like cattle and then wonder why they make terrorist attacks agaisnt Israel??

From what you wrote, I won’t even try, since it is a lost case… :rolleyes:

And what I last heard was that the IDF inquiry found out that after the tank was hit, the crew was in a state of shock and did not fire against the terrorists.

And even if they would have, it’s still a sneak attack, murder and kidnapping conducted by sub-human terrorists inside a sovereign Israeli territory – and not fightings and capturing during combat inside occupied territory.

now now, keep the bad language back as each one of us most certainly has loads of them names about the other side, ok, keep it civilized!

now can you explain what’s ” sovereign Israeli territory ” ???? this IS BS and you know it IS, there is NO such thing as a sovereign Israeli territory, 60 years ago there was no such thing as Israel on the first place!

and to add to that this land where the military post is was occupied in 67 from Egypt, how dare you call it your’s???

Your terror-sponsoring leaders will not be able to sleep at night because of the roar of the Israeli fighter planes over their house, like this morning, over and over again, first as a warning and then as an action.

HA HA HA HA HA … you really believe this BS your media is loading you with??? well take this:

http://sana.org/eng/22/2006/06/28/43891.htm

and this:

http://sana.org/eng/22/2006/06/28/43940.htm

the president was in Damascus recieving the envoy of the Jordanian King and the Speaker of Lebanese parlement at the same time your stupid media claims he was in Lattakia !!!

same BS happened last time you guys claimed this, your media claimed he was in Lattakia watching the SUPPOSEDLY over flying aircraft while he was in Damascus recieving Saudi – then – crown prince Abdullah!

your arrogance makes you as blind as a wall could be!

I’m sorry to inform your majisty and all the guys refusing to look straight at facts here that the latest news from Israel says the crew of the Merakava 3 dor dalet that was his left it after it recieved the hit and started firing in the direction of Gaza strip thinking the attack came from there, that’s when one of them was captured.

during normal combat while firing his weapon and that is it, end of story, he IS a POW wether you like it or not!.

And what I last heard was that the IDF inquiry found out that after the tank was hit, the crew was in a state of shock and did not fire against the terrorists.

And even if they would have, it’s still a sneak attack, murder and kidnapping conducted by sub-human terrorists inside a sovereign Israeli territory – and not fightings and capturing during combat inside occupied territory.

don’t make me laugh, the dude you are calling a civilian is a student of the military engineering academy!

He is an 18 years old student in a pre-military school. It’s hard to explain the nature of this institute, because it’s unique to Israel, but mostly what they do is studying, as well as preparing mentally and physically for their military service. It’s NOT a part of the IDF. He is NOT a soldier.

And even if he was – it still would have been kidnapping, not a POW or capturing or any of that bull$hit.

you guys need to get your reality straight and understand that you are NOT going to be welcome in the area, ever! at least not while you go on killing people here and there and bragging about your so-called long arm!

We will use that long arm, we will use it in the PA, Tunis, Lebanon and Syria – as well you should know. We will use it against anyone who threatens our country and way of life – anywhere. Your terror-sponsoring leaders will not be able to sleep at night because of the roar of the Israeli fighter planes over their house, like this morning, over and over again, first as a warning and then as an action.

Yeaaahh i saw one time a good terrorist, he had a bomb of 10 pounds of dynamite, thanks God, the bomb exploded in a car with three terrorists more, it was a bad day, it was a good car…. 😀

And then there is the young civilian who is missing and probably has been kidnapped in the West Bank.

don’t make me laugh, the dude you are calling a civilian is a student of the military engineering academy!

you guys need to get your reality straight and understand that you are NOT going to be welcome in the area, ever! at least not while you go on killing people here and there and bragging about your so-called long arm!

Some jewish and some christians who blindly back Israel policy no matter what, lobby our congress. Woe be it to anyone who gets in the way.

Aye. 😡

Great post, by the way. Although I may not agree with every bit of it, I think you’ve made some very valid points.

Some people don’t realise that the Palestianians won’t be happy until Israel no longer exists

I don’t think this has much to do with Hamas’ victory in the election. As far as I know, surveys indicate that only a minority among the Palestinians actually have such extreme views. Fewer are willing to do anything serious about it; none are able to achieve it. I guess the same applies to Israelis with views reciprocal to those which you have described.

Attempts at fitting the entire Palestinian populace into your binary perspective won’t take you anywhere.

and all I can say is the Palestianians should consider themselves lucky I ain’t in charge of Israel cos people wouldn’t be asking if Israel has nukes, and Palestine, Syria, Iran and any other country that threatened to wipe out my people would be unihabitable 😡

I guess such statements reveal a certain something about your ability of deduction. Engaging in a nuclear holocaust against neighbouring countries because of statements made by a very limited range of individuals whose visions and intentions concerning Israel are not representative of that region is, well, slightly* revealing. Also, Israel wouldn’t exactly be a very pleasant place to stay if such events were to occur, now would it?

By the way; I didn’t realise that Palestine is an existing country.

* Gross understatement

This seems less a capture (which usually means in English, being taken in combat)…and more of a kidnapping…especially since they’re asking for the release of jailed Palestinians…and the entire point of the raid seems to have been to grab someone.

I’m sorry to inform your majisty and all the guys refusing to look straight at facts here that the latest news from Israel says the crew of the Merakava 3 dor dalet that was his left it after it recieved the hit and started firing in the direction of Gaza strip thinking the attack came from there, that’s when one of them was captured.

during normal combat while firing his weapon and that is it, end of story, he IS a POW wether you like it or not!.

I must remember never to steal ur girlfriend/wife :diablo:

I remember being taught in school about the Israelis being oppressed by the Arab people, so where was this done if not where Israel stands now…were they oppressed in Brazil or something???

Funny, becouse I remeber taught in school that UK and other former colonial powers wanted to ease their conscience by giving the jews that they didn’t care much either some payback from the nazis work…And looked at the map and discovered that they had colonizased (or at least held it at the moment) the palestinian country, also happened to be the jews “promised land”…so all jews can go there (not being europeas proplem anymore)

…there just happens to live some few million arabs on the area (have lived for centuryes now)…who cares about some arabs…

Anyway, as Britain would say to the Argies and the European settlers would say to the Native Americans, it may have been yours but it’s ours now

Well if someone says that to you, what would you do? I certainly go and shoot somebody… :dev2: