Merged thread – Unelectable Corbyn and Let's not bomb ISIS

So the UK should behave like Greece then? Spend, spend, spend and keep borrowing until nobody will lend us a penny more and then throw ourselves on the mercy of the EU and IMF, whilst bitching about ‘austerity’ being inflicted upon us and claiming ‘it is not our fault’…

…that’s your plan?

No and don’t put words in my mouth.

I do not know exactly what you mean by ‘trickle down economics’ but if the figure quoted (if correct) that the top 1% of earners pay 30% of all income tax and something like the bottom 40% of earners pay no net tax at all, then that doesn’t sound like a system of ‘trickle down economics’ to me?

Rather than use % try looking at what those % actually represent in numbers.

Using % neatly hides the obscene amount of money held by and flowing to the top %.

Once people start to see the actual figures rather than expressing them as % there is very little opportunity for pretence that the system is in anyway anything other than one designed to ensure those with obscene amounts of wealth a) retain it and b) continue to accumulate it.

People in the “middle class” who are relatively well off with a degree of disposable income and an aspiration to become one of the wealthy are mere enablers of the system with little to no ability to actually realise their aspirations.

Jeremy Corbyn doesn’t own a car…..I expect the Labour Party will get the ticket!

Labour didn’t screw the country up, the crash of 2008 did that.
2008 and the events leading up to the crash impacted much of the “western” global economy and didn’t care whether the sitting governments were left, right or confused.

Oh dear – back to this position again, really?

Firstly, the crash wasn’t a global phenomenon. Australia and Canada were little affected, so it can easily be argued that appropriate positioning by the government of the day could have averted at least some of the fallout from it.

Neither was it all the fault of the bankers – as is repeatedly trumpeted by the ignorant. It WAS a failure in regulation caused by poor policy making, and by greed of all types – corporate, political and personal.

There was a downturn predicted in the UK for around 2002/3 – which would have been normal according to the cycle we were stuck in at the time. Brown put his hand in his pocket, and came up with the tax credit system – effectively giving lots of people free money which they didn’t have before. Downturn averted – and an end to boom and bust. Remember that?

I recall that a few pages back, I was pilloried for suggesting that the unions would be looking for a way back – todays headlines suggest that I was right to be concerned.

There is no jam tomorrow.

So the UK should behave like Greece then? Spend, spend, spend and keep borrowing until nobody will lend us a penny more and then throw ourselves on the mercy of the EU and IMF, whilst bitching about ‘austerity’ being inflicted upon us and claiming ‘it is not our fault’…

…that’s your plan?

Having just watched J.C. on Sky T.V. with their reporters trying to ask him, I.M.H.O. pertinent questions, and him ignoring them just makes me think he is a loose Cannon, and pig ignorant. I just hope the Fuzz noticed he was parked on double yellow lines !! but I’m not going to hold my breath, expecting him to get a ticket, (As we mere Plebs would, had it been one of us)
Jim
Lincoln .7

But surely ‘jam tomorrow’ is better than ‘jam now and more debt tomorrow’?

There is no jam tomorrow.

Unions are generally despised here because of their militant, self serving nature in the UK. Corbyn was only elected two days ago, and already the Unions are talking about targeted striking action to try and destabilize the democratically elected government. Instead of serving their intended purpose, which is obviously to represent workers, they have become a political bloc in the UK. Oh, and the small detail of a number of these champagne socialist/parasitic Union leaders earning more than the Prime Minister!

Data please.

Their Unions also appear to act in a (much more) constructive and responsible manner

Management also act in a constructive and responsible manner.

Also, their National Health Service is not a scratch on ours. A German friend of mine is sadly suffering from cancer, and was it not for the fact that he is wealthy and can afford premium care, he would likely be in a much worse state. A two tier health system like that would be rejected here.

Britain cannot afford the NHS in it’s current guise.
As you have introduced the topic I will comment. I do not know the nature of your friends cancer and it’s level of fatality but perhaps an assessment of the situation has meant the state funded medical services have concluded that the cost benefit of prolonging your friends life is not beneficial to the country. The person in question can afford to pay to prolong life but perhaps not reverse the situation. If that is the circumstances then the state funded regime is making the correct, albeit hard, choice in my opinion.
Perhaps the NHS should also be following similar guidelines?

The love expressed here for the tory offering, jam tomorrow, is akin to turkeys voting for Xmas however. Trickle down economics does not work, at least not in the way it is sold to the electorate.

But surely ‘jam tomorrow’ is better than ‘jam now and more debt tomorrow’?

I do not know exactly what you mean by ‘trickle down economics’ but if the figure quoted (if correct) that the top 1% of earners pay 30% of all income tax and something like the bottom 40% of earners pay no net tax at all, then that doesn’t sound like a system of ‘trickle down economics’ to me?

Unions are generally despised here because of their militant, self serving nature in the UK. Corbyn was only elected two days ago, and already the Unions are talking about targeted striking action to try and destabilize the democratically elected government. Instead of serving their intended purpose, which is obviously to represent workers, they have become a political bloc in the UK. Oh, and the small detail of a number of these champagne socialist/parasitic Union leaders earning more than the Prime Minister!

People talking about the unions as being anti something or other are also dinosaurs living in the past.
I suspect they are either retired so unlikely to require representation or run the risk of finding themselves under represented and alone having facilitated the removal of the very entities designed to protect them from employers excess.
That is of course assuming that they have to work to pay their mortgage, bills etc. If they have sufficient means to not be concerned by such trifles I can of course understand the lack of appreciation of the role of unions.

This has resulted in a sustainable high standard of living and quality of life for most Germans that many Brits would be astounded at if they only were aware of it.

I’m not sure what your experience of Germany is, but it is very different to mine. Germany is a sick country, that is crippled by war guilt and a population that is declining/aging at an alarming rate. Their Unions also appear to act in a much more constructive and responsible manner, which may be attributed to their Tutonic nature.

Also, their National Health Service is not a scratch on ours. A German friend of mine is sadly suffering from cancer, and was it not for the fact that he is wealthy and can afford premium care, he would likely be in a much worse state. A two tier health system like that would be rejected here.

I notice when the ignorant sh*te was blanking the media on Sky News this morning his car was parked on double yellows. Not the way to bolster support for your party, indeed quite the opposite.

Ahhh.. you can elect a leader of a party, but like the proverbial horse, you can lead it to water but don’t expect it to drink, one would imagine the same will be the Labour party, one will imagine the majority of the actual party elected MP’s will not drink what he is pushing.
The should all go around wearing Japanese kamakazi scarves knotted around their heads, as one feels the Labour party are commiting suicide.

He is like the trade union bosses, dinosaurs from a time that has long gone.

As ‘The Bump’ said, Blair has proven that the Networking opportunities and the prestige of having held that position are a gateway to enormous wealth.

Wow.
The level of partisan rubbish here is cringe worthy.
Labour didn’t screw the country up, the crash of 2008 did that.
2008 and the events leading up to the crash impacted much of the “western” global economy and didn’t care whether the sitting governments were left, right or confused.
To hear right wingers scaremongering about the “mess” left by the last labour government and then even more pathetically harking back to the 1970’s shows how little they understand the situation.
The last Labour government was pathetic, not for the economic issues, but because it reflected the apathy and state of decline of Britain at the time.
Too much concern about peripheral items of little real importance and not enough on the fundamentals.
It reflects a general malaise impacting the western capitalist world, one that has yet to go away.
The love expressed here for the tory offering, jam tomorrow, is akin to turkeys voting for Xmas however. Trickle down economics does not work, at least not in the way it is sold to the electorate.
As somebody has already pointed out the economy which is generally held to be the strongest in the immediate region is one which has management and unions intertwined and working together for the common cause. This has resulted in a sustainable high standard of living and quality of life for most Germans that many Brits would be astounded at if they only were aware of it.
The partisan tory good unions bad attitude expressed repeatedly by many of a right wing bent here make such a collaboration neigh on impossible.
How then do those who hold the unions in such fear expect to move forward into a future both productive and beneficial to the majority?

The left wing equivalent of The Daily Mail, The Daily Mirror, ran a story about a plot to bring in DM.
Bruce and David you are quite correct about DM’s earning power at the moment but I think the chance to have Labour grovelling to him to return and then putting one over Ed by winning the election will be irresistible.
He is 50 now and after a term as PM he’d be 60 odd, still enough time to return to high earning.
Look at Blair (don’t look at him too long though)!

Oh, I think he’s been doing that for at least five years, and maybe longer.

I don’t see David Milliband returning to UK politics. Why would he?

To stick two fingers up at his brother.

Moggy

With a little refinement, his proposals, supported by the power and financial muscle of the unions will certainly form the core of the Party manifesto.