Nigel rises again- Is this the second coming?

Re 149

….”strategies are falling on deaf ears with regard to many UKIP supporters…”

Perhaps it is these same UKIP supporters with their white vans and St. George’s flags who are feeling the brunt of rather liberal numbers of people arrivng from around the world and shinning over and thru’ the porous border walls of this pleasant land.

Perhaps it is these same people with white vans and flags who can’t get their children into a school where English is generally the first language, where overcrowded classrooms and harassed teachers exist only in the imaginations of those of our champagne socialist politicians who depend on cheap immigrant labour to pass around the canapes.

Perhaps it is these same people with white vans and flags who can’t get registered with their local GP because of overcrowding at the practice due, at least in part, to an influx of people from outside and inside the EU.

Perhaps it is these same people with their white vans and flags, living in desirable locations such as Rochdale and Rotherham and Bristol who are now kicking up such a fuss about the burgeoning Asian paedophile industry targetting their underage daughters.

All of the above has at some time – and continues to be – published in the media. From time to time we hear on TV or, read in the Press words from various spokesmen about the problems outlined above – and nothing gets done. Nothing can be done because the problems occasioned by excessive numbers of people are almost impossible to solve.

And all of the ‘useful idiots’ (Stalin’e telling phrase) wonder why UKIP is, where it is in the first place, and why it continues to attract support.

So, all you sneering opponents of a nascent political party that will prove to be a game changer, remember, several of you brought up the subject of uncontrolled immigration. I didn’t. My ‘beef’ has always been our sovereign right to govern ourselves and not be governed by some third rate, unelected, unaccountable and corrupt nest of thieves intent on reducing this country to practically nothing more than a region with a post code.

Erm we got nice straight bananas..

As for the UKIP doubters, well without them and the obvious panic they are causing it would be UK as normal, to listen to the immigration u turn that “just call me Dave” announced today he is worried…. Seriously worried.

If he didn’t think UKIP could and would put forward a credible and robust campaign at the next election you could guarantee that none of this would be happening. Some people in here may take UKIP lightly and regard them as a joke, but the main parties aren’t.

Re 140

CD

You write: “assuming there are some benefits to the UK (Britain) being in the EU……)

I need some help on this one. Can you list those benefits ?

Whatever it is they have built is on shifting sands. At best they are a two horse pony with little to substantiate their other policies. When it comes down to election day it will the economy and voters’ well being which really matters.

But don’t worry humble pie will be consumed if I am wrong.;)

Expansion to a vast European superstate is its raison d’être. It just has to!!!

Yes, maybe, but why? Why does it want to, or need to, expand?

Good to see the number of comments that accurately point out that immigration is not an or the issue. Sad that it has somehow become the narritive of the media and politicans.
I suspect in the latter case this is simply because it is easier to talk about immigration than admit the real issues that they are failling to address. Cough debt cough.

Right now, with six months to the closest General Election in a generation, its all about soundbites and winning votes. Politicians like Cameron however have yet to acknowledge that their strategies are falling on deaf ears with regard to many UKIP supporters. We should take some time to understand what UKIP have built, and importantly how they did it. Everything we say about them may well be true, but to ignore them would be the utmost folly.

No, the rise of ‘anti-EU’ parties will not all be for the same reasons but surely they will all be because that the EU isn’t ‘working’ in some respect in those countries.

For example, in the growing economy of the United Kingdom, despite considerable immigration, employers (particularly the government) are struggling to fill key job vacancies but I wonder what the effect of all the emigration is on the countries that they are leaving? Can it be healthy if a significant proportion of your younger, possibly more skilled and certainly more motivated workforce leave to work in the United Kingdom, Germany, France or elsewhere?

Hmm, one problem with rebalancing the labour market away from the state and more towards private enterprise, is that private companies pay more for the good people – usually a lot more. Hence the difficulty in finding good people to work in government. Would it be disingenuous for me to say that a similar problem may well exist when it comes to recruiting would be politicians (of all denominations)?

Bruce

The answer to your question is very easy. Expansion to a vast European superstate is its raison d’être. It just has to!!!

Here is a question for the forum; why does the EU want to expand?

Now, assuming, that (out of the goodness of its heart) the EU doesn’t want to expand purely to help the poor downtrodden citizens of the, mainly Eastern European, countries that have been admitted to the EU in recent years, what is the reason? Surely, it cannot be for the strength of their economies or the money that they will contribute to the EU coffers as, equally surely, most (if not all) of these countries will be a drain on EU funds (initially at least, and possibly long-term)? So why?

Interesting question isn’t it?

No, the rise of ‘anti-EU’ parties will not all be for the same reasons but surely they will all be because that the EU isn’t ‘working’ in some respect in those countries.

For example, in the growing economy of the United Kingdom, despite considerable immigration, employers (particularly the government) are struggling to fill key job vacancies but I wonder what the effect of all the emigration is on the countries that they are leaving? Can it be healthy if a significant proportion of your younger, possibly more skilled and certainly more motivated workforce leave to work in the United Kingdom, Germany, France or elsewhere?

Surprised – or maybe not – that more of this hasn’t been mentioned.

#thingsthatarenotmosques

Feeling the need to make sure that every Ukip screw up gets a fair thrash of the cane, I shall make no apologies for letting this not pass you by:

Nigel Farage’s Ukip branch rebukes BBC for ingrained liberal bias in holding straw poll about leader in front of noted Muslim place of worship… wait, hang on…

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/27/-sp-ukip-mistakes-westminster-cathedral-for-mosque

After all, there maybe be members of our foreign contingent (but not the immigrants, obviously) who have not heard about this – yet!

Yes I was pleaded to read Bruce’s comment. There’s nothing like tabloid supplied ignorance to fuel the extreme vote. And of course the rise of anti-EU parties elsewhere in Europe is not necessarily for the same reasons.

I am confident that we will not see Lord Farage as our Prime Minister in 2015!

.

jonny green, living in the past with fantasies about the future.

Would you care to mention a couple or ideally all of the “numerous independant countries…that do not have a problem” and also compare and contrast them to Britain in terms of desired global presence and abilities?

Good to see the number of comments that accurately point out that immigration is not an or the issue. Sad that it has somehow become the narritive of the media and politicans.
I suspect in the latter case this is simply because it is easier to talk about immigration than admit the real issues that they are failling to address. Cough debt cough.

Immigration is one huge red herring.

Sure, it is higher than was anticipated, but as the one economy that is actually growing in the EU that is inevitable. However, as we also have an increasing labour market, and employment is at an all time high, I fail to see the problem. There has been plenty of research that demonstrates quite graphically that those who are most concerned about immigration have a) no idea what the level is, and b) the effect it has on the economy. The biggest worry out there is that people from other countries come here for our benefits and for the NHS, but statistics do not bear this out.

Talking of the NHS, it would come to a grinding halt if we had to send all the European doctors and nurses home!!

Bruce

On the key subject of immigration leaving the EU will not solve any of the ‘problems’…..even if UKIP had any plans to remove any immigrant who is here legally (which they don’t).

If the United Kingdom left the EU and still wanted to trade ‘freely’ with the EU we would be forced by the EU to join the European Economic Area (EEA) and that would mean that the free movement of EU population would be forced upon the United Kingdom just as it is with Iceland and Norway…

…if we left the EEA we would have to negotiate with the EU a separate trade agreement with the EU, like Switzerland, and guess what would be a condition of that ‘free’ trade agreement?

If you are Swiss you can come and work in the United Kingdom without any restrictions and I, being a (British) EU citizen, can go and work in Swizerland without any restrictions (like anybody from Poland, Bulgaria or Romania).

Now assuming there are some benefits to the United Kingdom being in the EU, is it worth giving up these benefits to gain absolutely zero more control over our immigration policy?

Silver Fox

My support for UKIP and that of tens of thousands of others, is centered upon the answer to this question:

Who controls Britain? Britain or the EU ? Derived from the answer to that question is the following:

Who has the last word on matters affecting Britain’s State institurions?

Who now makes the majority of Britain’s primary legislation ?

Which Court’s judgments have the last word? The British Supreme Court or the European Court ?

Who now, for the most part, represents Britain’s interests in international affairs ?

There’s plenty more but, I’m sure you get the drift. There are probably tens if not hundreds of thousands of people in this country (there are a few on this Forum) for whom these questions are academic. The matters outlined above do not appear to have much day to day impact upon the lives of many of our people but, look closer.

If you’re a parent and your child is run over and killed by a drunk or drug crazed driver who has recently arrived in this country with an unknown record of criminality in his country of origin, is then sentenced to a term of imprisonment and upon his release scheduled for deportation and then as a consequence of an EU law is found to have a right of abode in this country due to the fact that he has fathered children here – that would, I think, make you a UKIP supporter.

This example, familiar to most of us, is just one of many. Is Britain in charge of Britain ? On this evidence, no it is not. I don’t know why UKIP (I accept your statistics) has such a low attendance record. Perhaps it is due to attending only those debates that are of any significance and recognising the futility of trying to influence an assembly of which you are such a small part.

I don’t know why you infer that Britain wouldn’t have much of a future outside the EU. For a country that once ran the world – or a major part of it, for the more literally minded among my critics – it shouldn’t be a problem. There are numerous independent countries around the globe that do not have a problem – it’s a question of self belief. Trade will continue in the same old way.

Countries including the EU will continue to sell to us and we to them. As for the business of leaving ? We’ve discussed this many times on this Forum and the exit signs are well lit and obvious, unless, of course, people want to create exit problems.
As for the utllities you mention. We own them, they are in this country. We take them back, preferably into public ownership.

.

Re 131

I think that there will be time enough to cross that particular bridge if and when UKIP achieve a majority. I call it ‘wriggle’ time !

Re 130

You see it your way, I see it mine. What I should have added to that statement was a reference to our leaving the EU. Some people do require ‘chapter and verse’ .

It has happened all over Europe in the recent past…

…and it is happening all over Europe again!

Look at the rise of the ‘far-right’ in France; they have possibly more support than UKIP in the United Kingdom and that has evolved in a typically ‘socialist’ and pro-European electorate at a time when their ‘left-wing’ president was elected on a mandate of ‘growth’ (as opposed to austerity).

Even in Germany an ‘anti-Euro’ party has the vote of a fair number of the electorate; and this is a party that didn’t exist before the financial-crash.

Is it possible that a renegotiation of some of the central EU policies will not be as difficult as we think?

Possibly – it is the balance of power that is all important.

I remain hopeful that Milliband will prove to be such a huge voter turn off that he will lose enough votes to keep him out.

There is no doubt whatever that UKIP are appealing to sections of the electorate that other parties have never even considered. Those are aside from disaffected Tory voters like John. There is a suggestion that the Labour vote in Scotland is about to collapse, but sadly their replacements would probably support them in government.

Charlie – I suggested that the by election result was irrelevant, and so it is – but it may be indicative. You should ignore them at your peril.

Overall, this rise in support for a strongly right wing party appears to me to mirror that seen whenever conventional politics breaks down. It has happened all over Europe in the recent past, and most notably in the 1930’s. Whatever the successes of the current incumbents, and they are debateable, enough people don’t feel that the current politics is relevant to themselves and their lives. When they spend too much time buying sections of the electorate, as New Labour did between 2000 and 2007, I can relate to that..

Bruce