OK Not the most glorious part of British Rule

You all seem to have the advantage of me. I was with it a few posts ago but have now completey “lost the thread” so to speak!

You seem to know more about it than I do.

Nazis to grammar nazis now. Should I have used that funny little jobby below the @ on my keyboard between the i and s of nazis?

That’s better !

Stupidity on the other hand seems to be immortal.

…..”Stupidity, on the other hand, seems to be immortal….”

I don’t think you’re quite as good at this as you think you are. Why quote me with your ‘correction’ already added, and why add an ellipsis at the beginning and end of a complete quote?

I’ll say it again; if you’re going to start correcting punctuation, spelling and syntax on this forum then you’re going to be very busy indeed.

As smoke grenades go, that one was a bit of a dud. Next time you might like to try chucking in a few mirrors too…

……”lacking what exactly?”

Punctuation.

Re 33

…..”Stupidity, on the other hand, seems to be immortal….”

You should know.

Everybody should know. I know a racist and xenophobe when I see ( and read ) one, too. Perhaps I’m a little more switched on than the site administrators here, who should have banned you some time ago.

By the way, your punctuation is lacking.

Lacking what, exactly? Is that the best you can do? I point you out as an unashamed ( if not proud ) racist, and you pick me up on bad punctuation. If that’s your bag, then you’re going to be busy on this forum…

Stupidity is indeed immortal.

That’s reserved for use by modern-day haters of the police.

Yes but Edgar, I find reference to them and the shortcomings of the said organisation makes for ‘interesting’ breakfast table ‘discussions’…..

Re 33

…..”Stupidity, on the other hand, seems to be immortal….”

You should know.

By the way, your punctuation is lacking.

Do descendents of the protagonists refer to each other as “vermin” or “filth” because of what happened many centuries ago?

That’s reserved for use by modern-day haters of the police.

In support of my belief regarding ‘shame’ ‘guilt’ and nations. Carthage and the Punic Wars, Thermopylae and Actium resonate to this day. The more so among the descendants of the original participants and not just those who are historians.

Do descendents of the protagonists refer to each other as “vermin” or “filth” because of what happened many centuries ago?

Memories die hard !

Stupidity on the other hand seems to be immortal.

John

I bow to your knowledge and experience of these peoples and their collective shame and guilt but have to confess to being astonished and strongly believe they are very misguided.

Knowledge of the history on one’s ancestors is important and instructive but sharing in the emotions of the events of centuries and nearly millenia ago is to my mind as bad as those who still “live in the past”. For me the 21st century is no place to rue the slaughter of an ancient enemy.

But I respect your views, sincerely held and we will as so often here, agree to differ.

This is it, I presume…http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/277-2755421-3277925?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=%22The%20End%22%20%22Germany%201944-45%22%2C

Charlie,

In support of my belief regarding ‘shame’ ‘guilt’ and nations. Carthage and the Punic Wars, Thermopylae and Actium resonate to this day. The more so among the descendants of the original participants and not just those who are historians. Apart from Carthage, these were not wars or campaigns of annihilation or acts of genocide, just military events of an importance still remembered 2,000 years or so later.

As for our own country, There was, until recent times, a folk memory of the campaign of genocide carried out by William the Usurper and referred to as “The Harrying of the North”. It was recorded
that tens of thousands of innocent English, from a relatively small population numbering perhaps two million, died from starvation and disease because of the repressive measures inflicted by the Normans, the shame and guilt of which attaches to this nation who, because of the territory they occupied in Northern France formed a nation within a nation to this day. It was recorded by Orderic Vitalis that the Usurper, upon his death, confessed and made apology for his crime.

Memories die hard !

“The End – Germany 1944-45”, Ian Kershaw, Penguin £9.99. ISBN 978-0-14101421-9

So neither “shouldn’t” nor “didn’t”. But I would suggest that cannot is closer to shouldn’t in sense that didn’t. Or am I being pedantic? I think you know what I meant.

Thank you for your offer, but I would like to find a copy so the ISBN and publisher would be very helpful.:)

Re 17

…..”Nations in themselves cannot bear shame or anything else……”

Charlie,

You’re welcome to my copy. I’ll mail it via a PM. If you prefer your own, I can give the ISBN and the publisher.

John – correct me if I am wrong but I think I said that it “shouldn’t” not that it “didn’t”. Ian Kershaw is a fine writer although I have not read the book you refer to. I must seek it out.

Yes we did. Permit me to list at least four:

Amritsar
The Zulu wars
The Boxer rebellion
The Boer war

Apart from the first, these were wars of acquisition and greed instigated by expansionists.

While no less serious in terms of their ultimate effect, they were limited, small scale affairs bearing no comparison with the genocide of Pol Pot in Cambodia, Herr Hitlers New European Order or Uncle Joe’s population thinning or, the slaughter of the Armenians by the Turks.

In terms of the gravity of the crime, scale does matter. On the other hand I do understand that stealing a pound is the same as stealing a million. The difference is that a life is beyond price.

Charlie re 17

I said that guilt and shame attaches to nations. You said that it didn’t. I’ve just finished reading “The End” “Germany 1944-45”, Ian Kershaw. This is an impressive account of the last year of WW2. Kershaw writes: “Shame mainly finds expression at first in defiance and undignified self-denigration; only gradually and slowly in regret. That is how it is among the nations”.

What has this got to do with the thread topic, and the injustices that happened during the British Empire?

Nothing, but it has everything to do with your crass statement that Britain has “got off lightly.”

And to respond to your deflective defensive post:
Good grief! Britain didn’t do it to keep the world free any more than the Empire was run for benevolent reasons.
Britain fought for national survival, and to retain the Empire,

I have no idea if you’re receptive to advice, but you’re going to get it, anyway; if you’re going to discuss history, try not to rewrite it before you start. Britain declared war because an ally, namely Poland, was invaded; that the war went badly, and left us on the defensive does not alter the fact that we went to war for an ideal.

something Churchill desperately fought for before the US disabused him and successors very firmly of that idea.

What diabolical behaviour for a British Prime Minister; obviously you feel that he should have allowed it to fall under the control of Tojo and Hitler, where they would have been far better off.

I’m beginning to suspect you’re one of “those” mentioned earlier, so let me ask you:

Suspect what you like; your opinion of me matters not one jot, and you can answer your own questions.

Yes, we “only” lost 1,337,000 of our people in helping to keep the world free, during two World Wars, and spent 60 years in debt to American bankers, totally inconsequential, really.

What a strange reply.

What has this got to do with the thread topic, and the injustices that happened during the British Empire?

And to respond to your deflective defensive post:
Good grief! Britain didn’t do it to keep the world free any more than the Empire was run for benevolent reasons.
Britain fought for national survival, and to retain the Empire, something Churchill desperately fought for before the US disabused him and successors very firmly of that idea.

I’m beginning to suspect you’re one of “those” mentioned earlier, so let me ask you:

Did Britain commit grave injustices during the Empire era?

Britain is certainly not the only one who has stumped up to pay for certain misdeeds of the recent past, and in fact, as mentioned, you would have to admit that Britain has got off very lightly indeed, all things considered.

Yes, we “only” lost 1,337,000 of our people in helping to keep the world free, during two World Wars, and spent 60 years in debt to American bankers, totally inconsequential, really.