"Patty's A VIRGIN"

VoyTech,

On that photo of Closterman’s Spitfire taken side on, how do you explain the red of the roundels and finflash being so dark if the camera filter has eliminated the red of the lion? It simply makes no sense to me, sorry. I am convinced that the unit crest markings were removed physically with white paint.

Voy Tech,

Different aircraft to my two, but same cameraman with filter! 🙂 :rolleyes:

Surely this adds weight that the lions were painted out?

Mark

Hope I didin’t miss the sarcasm meter 🙂 Can’t be taken at the same time. Full D-Day stripes vs the half stripes on Closterman’s LO-D?

End of July photo of LO-D I would imagine. Latest Mid-July but probably late June for the original 2 full D-Day striped Spit with the badge without artwork.

Dan

There is a pic of Clostermann’s Spit V after he pranged it in the extended version of “The Big Show”.

I can’t recall, but didn’t they also use Spit VIIs? They were mentioned in the book, but it’s been that long since I read it…:rolleyes:

Yep they had a few Spit VIIs mixed in with thier LFVs.

Dan

Was this information recorded by the photographer about different filters being used, or is this a deduction on your part (this is not meant to read as me being aggro or nasty, I’m just curious as to how you know this).

1) No, the information was not recorded (at least not to my knowledge) 🙁
2) Yes, it is a deduction on my part 🙂
3) Dave, I’m inspired by your manners 😉 I’m Slavonic, and were are supposed to be short-tempered, so obviously there is some difference between you and me as to what is “aggro”.

I do love a good fight.

These two shots were two consecutive frames (still photography) from a 35 mm film. The same session included other such sequences were virtually the same scene was shot several times with various filter sets.

Was this information recorded by the photographer about different filters being used, or is this a deduction on your part (this is not meant to read as me being aggro or nasty, I’m just curious as to how you know this).

They had Spitfire IXB’s and LF VB “Clipped, Cropped, Clapped” during 1944 – and during an earlier stay up North, they also used Spitfire VI’s

Below is another No. 602 Sqdn ship with full insigna – Pilots are Pierre Clostermann and Ken Charney.

Martin

There is a pic of Clostermann’s Spit V after he pranged it in the extended version of “The Big Show”.

I can’t recall, but didn’t they also use Spit VIIs? They were mentioned in the book, but it’s been that long since I read it…:rolleyes:

If the two shots were from a film (which is a good theory as this was often the case) perhaps it were a general photo call and the change in lighting and tones is caused by the flash of another press man’s stills camera? Just a theory.

These two shots were two consecutive frames (still photography) from a 35 mm film. The same session included other such sequences were virtually the same scene was shot several times with various filter sets.

If the two shots were from a film (which is a good theory as this was often the case) perhaps it were a general photo call and the change in lighting and tones is caused by the flash of another press man’s stills camera? Just a theory.

Did they have any Mk IXs in the Orkneys?

They had Spitfire IXB’s and LF VB “Clipped, Cropped, Clapped” during 1944 – and during an earlier stay up North, they also used Spitfire VI’s

Below is another No. 602 Sqdn ship with full insigna – Pilots are Pierre Clostermann and Ken Charney.

Martin

okay – publicity related to Polish units / pilots or RAF in general ?
If it was for RAF general publicity – it would make sense to white out the Polish insigna (or, as a matter of fact, take a photo with low contrast) in order not to give the possibility to link faces to Polish units.

PAF Film Unit usually provided photos to Polish periodicals, but some have been circulated widely. I don’t recall ever seeing any of their photos with the Polish motifs removed to achieve a “general RAF” appearance.

And in hindsight of the above, the other shot would make perfect sense for Polish publicity – it clearly shows a Spit VB of a Polish unit, but no personal or other markings (after the “C” has been made invisible)……

That’s what has puzzled me when I first saw the other one as a decent size print – the whitish square didn’t look right for Polish AF publicity purpose.

Two?

Certainly not! 😮 I would have never posted the photo if added weight to your viewpoint! 😀

My two shots of the same aircraft.

Mark

Different aircraft to my two, but same cameraman with filter! 🙂 :rolleyes:

Two?

Surely this adds weight that the lions were painted out?

Certainly not! 😮 I would have never posted the photo if added weight to your viewpoint! 😀

the photo of Max Sutherland and the Spit with the full insigna was taken (IIRC) during the unit’s deployment to the Orkneys in January 1944.

Did they have any Mk IXs in the Orkneys?

Voy Tech,

Different aircraft to my two, but same cameraman with filter! 🙂 :rolleyes:

Surely this adds weight that the lions were painted out?

Mark

Okay

LO-D is taken post D-Day – somewhen in July 1944 – the photo of Max Sutherland and the Spit with the full insigna was taken (IIRC) during the unit’s deployment to the Orkneys in January 1944.

Martin

one for Mark and Dave

So what have they done to the Lion?
MJ586 LO-D of Pierre Clostermann himself (photo from his personal archive). Only lower half D-Day stripes. And again no visible lion in the badge.
Or is it the same aeroplane in all three photos?

I am intrigued by the vanishing ‘C’ and the Polish emblem. Timing apart Voy Tech, is what we see here consistent with a filter change?

Perfectly, if the “C” is the same red as in the Polish marking.

PS. Something special for you and Dave in about two seconds 😉

you may find it interesting that the photo with the “C” clearly visible was eventually used as publicity shot

okay – publicity related to Polish units / pilots or RAF in general ?

If it was for RAF general publicity – it would make sense to white out the Polish insigna (or, as a matter of fact, take a photo with low contrast) in order not to give the possibility to link faces to Polish units.

And in hindsight of the above, the other shot would make perfect sense for Polish publicity – it clearly shows a Spit VB of a Polish unit, but no personal or other markings (after the “C” has been made invisible)……

over to you…

Martin

Admirable timing.

Quote from SwissM,

“it almost looks like two stills from a movie”.

Yes about two seconds or less apart. 🙂

And yes I have done comparative studies of groups of people posing on successive frames, family etc, just by keeping my finger on the shutter, and it surprising just how much groups will change and move about although they will say that they haven’t. Try it.

I am intrigued by the vanishing ‘C’ and the Polish emblem. Timing apart Voy Tech, is what we see here consistent with a filter change?

Mark

ps Cross over post again.

I have once offered to post a photo of another Spitfire with just the white base for the badge. This is P8385 RF-A of 303 Squadron photographed between mid-May and mid-July 1941 at Northolt. The “Kosciuszko” badge is yet to be appied on top of the white disc near the windscreen.