Rearwin for Melvyn

You have my sympathy. I would think that it becomes a hell of a fairground attraction if the brakes don’t work.

I was not questioning the necessity of brakes just the effectiveness (or lack of) with the existing system

Sorry, I had someone have a go at me in France for not knowing how to land my aeroplane as it was obvious I didn’t need brakes!

The existing system was fine when it worked but adjustment and wear were the problem. They were nice and progressive and on the rare occasions where they were set up properly they were very natural to use.

Bit of a bum-puckering ride when they were not!

M

It is interesting as it has to have brakes. The Sportster was priced with brakes extra, on the Cloudster they were included. Whether this is because time had changed or not is a question I donno the answer to.

Most taildraggers can, and should, be landed with scant attention to the brakes. The Cloudster is a little different as it has no rudder authority in the latter stages of the landing run and the tailwheel steering is not good enough to turn you. It is fine at slow speed but not when moving quickly. Therefore the is a band of speed where any divergence off the runway needs a little dab of brake to bring you straight. You can sit with full rudder and it does nothing. When Stuart flew it he thought it was a characteristic of square-sectioned fuselages.

It does need brakes!

I was not questioning the necessity of brakes just the effectiveness (or lack of) with the existing system

iJˆ -?plane]Hi Melvyn,

My Magister and Falcon ( plus the Messenger) use Auster-type Bendix brakes. If properly sorted, these work reliably well.

Gordon Spooner of Messenger G-AJWB fame worked out that the main problem with ( old) Bendix brakes was the electrolytical corrosion between the ally wheel and the steel inner brake rim riveted to it. The ally corrodes, swells and causes high spots in the steel, ruining the contact area = useless brakes. All can be sorted.

Would this arrangement not work for you? It would also give you differential braking on the rudder pedals and you could also get rid of those nasty heel brake pedals, albeit at the expense of installing a non-standard ‘fly-off-type handbrake lever somewhere.[/QUOTE]

It is quite funny, a number of people tell me I should replace the heel brakes but I really don’t have any problem with them. They are well placed and they don’t get in the way when you don’t want them to. I think that toe brakes might be a problem as the firewall is close to the limit of the rudder pedal travel and it might not be possible to fit them in anyway. Since I don’t have a problem with where the pedals are at the moment, and it is one less thing to write and engineering change for, I am going to keep them where they are. A friend who has considerable aircraft design experience (and racing cars) is coming down soon and we are going to work out where to put the master cylinders which is the only grey area at the moment.

Some Austers have spats – as indeed does my Maggie – so it might be possible on the Cloudster?

If so, I’m sure we can help you with bits – I have several contacts for parts and machining.

Thanks Peter, it looks as if the wheel end of the conversion on mine is not going to hold too many surprises. I am pretty sure we are going to get the brakes fitted without having to change the spats (which are still in France!) or the way they are mounted.

The Cessna 150 Cleveland brake mod on my PT22 is absolutely brilliant. I havea crashed 22 with all the brake bits. Shame to break it up though – it could go again. Fancy another project? I’m sure your bank manager has a sense of humour really…..( mine laughs only well I tell him to – a bit different to just a few years back….).

you can probably hear my bank manager screaming right now. My next project is earning a living, something I have been neglecting for the last four years! The mod I am going for is “Cleveland-type” really but I get to choose the size of wheel. Keeping as many parts as possible original helps with the paperwork.

Come and fly the Maggie or 22. I have offered before. I can then show you the arrangement on The Collections Maggie.

All the best

HP

Thanks Guv and for the suggestions, they are all grist to the mill. I have every intention of coming down and abusing your hospitality. It would be fun.

I find it rather interestimg that Rearwin became Commonwealth Aircraft in 1943, when at the time there was already rather a large company called Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation building aeroplanes – was there any connection?

I don’t think there was. Commonwealth didn’t do too well with Rearwin. The company was very tightly run when owned by the family. Most people working there were young and got paid well and worked hard (apparently Rearwin company weekend Bar B Qs were pretty good!). Ken Rearwin told me that when Commonwealth got in they installled a guy called Charles Dolan as general manager. Dolan had been in the Escadrille Lafayette, and the Memorial Flight SPAD used to be in his markings, but he installed loads of cronies into middle management and made the company top heavy. Rae Rearwin and Ken were both sacked before their consultancy contracts were finished and a lot of people followed Ken to TWA where he rose pretty high. Among those he recruited was Bob Rummell who designed the Cloudster and who went on to write the book “Howard Hughes and TWA” which is worth reading.

Commonwealth got Rearwin through the war as they did a lot of work on Waco gliders (I took Eric Rearwin to see his first one when he was over in March) but they were not set up to last after the war. Considering that Rae Rearwin had got them through the depression years it is a shame as they could have survived. There are a lot of Skyrangers around, some are Rearwin built and a lot are Commonwealth. Commonwealth made a huge amount of engineering changes to them so some parts are not interchangeable.

It is an interesting story and I was lucky enough to get some of it first hand. Some of that has even been news to Eric who now runs the family archive.

Hi Melvyn,

Come and fly the Maggie or 22. I have offered before. I can then show you the arrangement on The Collections Maggie.

All the best

HP

Form an orderly queue please,no jostling at the back there! 😉
Go on Melvyn you know you want to!
Okay I am off to work now sorry for hijacking your reply HP!
Alan (still standing by with clean rag and Mr Pledge!) 😀

Bendix?

Hi Melvyn,

My Magister and Falcon ( plus the Messenger) use Auster-type Bendix brakes. If properly sorted, these work reliably well.

Gordon Spooner of Messenger G-AJWB fame worked out that the main problem with ( old) Bendix brakes was the electrolytical corrosion between the ally wheel and the steel inner brake rim riveted to it. The ally corrodes, swells and causes high spots in the steel, ruining the contact area = useless brakes. All can be sorted.

Would this arrangement not work for you? It would also give you differential braking on the rudder pedals and you could also get rid of those nasty heel brake pedals, albeit at the expense of installing a non-standard ‘fly-off-type handbrake lever somewhere.

Some Austers have spats – as indeed does my Maggie – so it might be possible on the Cloudster?

If so, I’m sure we can help you with bits – I have several contacts for parts and machining.

The Cessna 150 Cleveland brake mod on my PT22 is absolutely brilliant. I havea crashed 22 with all the brake bits. Shame to break it up though – it could go again. Fancy another project? I’m sure your bank manager has a sense of humour really…..( mine laughs only well I tell him to – a bit different to just a few years back….).

Come and fly the Maggie or 22. I have offered before. I can then show you the arrangement on The Collections Maggie.

All the best

HP

I find it rather interestimg that Rearwin became Commonwealth Aircraft in 1943, when at the time there was already rather a large company called Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation building aeroplanes – was there any connection?

yeah, I know the feeling.. I went crazy when I had to make the order for our nuts & bolts.. i still have nightmares of conversion tables and AN measures!!
Dont know Matco though..

Alex

P.S.
We’d better turn this chat into a PM thing 😉

I see 🙂
did u have a look at the Spruce Aviation catalog for brake kits?

Alex

Yes, they are great if you know what you want and can order by part number but they get a bit lost if you start asking questions. I asked a simple one about harnesses some time back and they just gave me the number of the manufacturers rather than try to answer themselves!

This isn’t a match the part number and order situation!

Matco are great. I have confidence in them.

I spoke to Ray Allen last night who make servos for trim systems. They were really helpful too.

I see 🙂
did u have a look at the Spruce Aviation catalog for brake kits?

Alex

u said right melv, it’s a matter of finding a braking system which allows u to have a progressive control on them. Are the brake pedals on top of the rudder ones? The original config of the Rearwin was with a tailskid or tailwheel?

Alex

Original config was a tailwheel, the same as the one I have (mine is no3!)

The brakes are heel brakes and are positioned well for how you need to use them. They are not used for stopping the aeroplane at all, just jostling it back on line when the rudder doesn’t work.

What size wheels you got then? We’re on 8x6s.

In general just a bit worried you’re re-inventing the wheel! Have you looked at other aircraft brake systems?

I know of a company that does electric braking 😉

800×4 with a 1.5 in axle. The Supercub mod paperwork I have shows using a smaller axle which will add to the paperwork. The Rearwin is a bit heavier than a Cub. It is not the wheel end of the equation that is the problem. As long as the wheels and axles remain the same diameter it doesn’t matter if I go from 4in hubs to 6 in as long as they are rated for the weight. And as long as the wheel centres are in the same position there is no change of load. Matco have a wheel that is suitable and more or less a slot on and connect up AND I can use the spats.

There are Cloudsters flying with Cub wheels and no spats but I have the original spats and would like to use them. There are also Cloudsters flying that have probably not had the effort I am exerting to get the system right and so may well have substandard parts (you should have seen some of the stuff I have already replaced!)

As for reinventing the wheel, I am not really doing that, just changing the way they are stopped using proprietry parts! There are so few Cloudsters flying that whatever I do other than what was originally fitted is more or less new ground. It is like my glass roof. I had to design that too as some of those on existing Cloudsters did not fill the PFA with joy!

The only problem now is how and where to mount the master cylinders.

M

u said right melv, it’s a matter of finding a braking system which allows u to have a progressive control on them. Are the brake pedals on top of the rudder ones? The original config of the Rearwin was with a tailskid or tailwheel?

Alex

What size wheels you got then? We’re on 8x6s.

In general just a bit worried you’re re-inventing the wheel! Have you looked at other aircraft brake systems?

I know of a company that does electric braking 😉

how about these ? :diablo:

Martin 😀

or one of these

It does need brakes!

how about these ? :diablo:

Martin 😀

That is one weeerd system, I reckon you’d probably be better off with no brakes at all than this Mickey Mouse set up. I can’t understand why it was a dead end idea can you? 🙂

It is interesting as it has to have brakes. The Sportster was priced with brakes extra, on the Cloudster they were included. Whether this is because time had changed or not is a question I donno the answer to.

Most taildraggers can, and should, be landed with scant attention to the brakes. The Cloudster is a little different as it has no rudder authority in the latter stages of the landing run and the tailwheel steering is not good enough to turn you. It is fine at slow speed but not when moving quickly. Therefore the is a band of speed where any divergence off the runway needs a little dab of brake to bring you straight. You can sit with full rudder and it does nothing. When Stuart flew it he thought it was a characteristic of square-sectioned fuselages.

It does need brakes!

Melv

see the last photo on this page:

http://www.447bg.com/library/cpt/cpt3.html

and some

http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac3/Classics/Rearwin8135.html

http://www.landings.com/_landings/ganflyer/mar21-1997/of-wings-n-things.html

Martin

That is a Cloudster on the third to last too.

Melv

see the last photo on this page:

http://www.447bg.com/library/cpt/cpt3.html

and some

http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac3/Classics/Rearwin8135.html

http://www.landings.com/_landings/ganflyer/mar21-1997/of-wings-n-things.html

Martin