Hi.
After the recent discussion on the RBL Poppy Appeal and the interest it so obviously caused. I thought I might start a small thread of bits and pieces relevant to the coming Remembrance Weekend.
Post whatever you want, but don’t start any arguments, you can do that elsewhere.
Here’s a few from me to start.
Firstly a few from Belgium. Back in August, I took a Sunday morning walk in Ploegsteert Wood (Plugstreet to the average Tommy) and came upon Rifle House cemetery. Contained within is the grave of Rifleman R. Barnett. Died December 19th, 1914, age 15 years.
I love these smaller, slightly obscure locations. One has to leave the car and walk to many of them and therefore they tend not to get many visitors.
Secondly I found this piece in the Daily Telegraph.
It made me think–much does sadly. I wish sometimes things didn’t.
Finally, a bit of poetry (oh God, not again I hear you say).
The Second World War this time
Keith Douglas.
Vergissmeinnicht:
Three weeks gone and the combatants gone
returning over the nightmare ground
we found the place again, and found
the soldier sprawling in the sun.
The frowning barrel of his gun
overshadowing. As we came on
that day, he hit my tank with one
like the entry of a demon.
Look. Here in the gunpit spoil
the dishonoured picture of his girl
who has put: Steffi. Vergissmeinnicht.
in a copybook gothic script.
We see him almost with content,
abased, and seeming to have paid
and mocked at by his own equipment
that’s hard and good when he’s decayed.
But she would weep to see today
how on his skin the swart flies move;
the dust upon the paper eye
and the burst stomach like a cave.
For here the lover and killer are mingled
who had one body and one heart.
And death who had the soldier singled
has done the lover mortal hurt.
Right, now it’s down to the rest of you.
Andy.
By: charliehunt - 9th November 2012 at 14:21
Kev
I was looking at this the other day when I was talking to my grandson about this very subject. I don’t know how accurate those estimated are.
By: kev35 - 9th November 2012 at 14:00
Andy, 15yrs old, I know it’s true, but did he have to give up the life he had not even started, for the sake of King and Country?. He should have been refused to enter the armed forces at that age’
Jim.
Lincoln .7
Hi Jim.
Has it occurred to you that many of these young lads not only wanted to go but felt it was their duty to? It was the ‘great adventure’, the war was the defining period of their lives, some have suggested that the experience of going ‘over the top’ was the defining moment of what has been referred to as the lost generation. The story of Rifleman Barnett is far, far from being a solitary one. I have come across something similar in the research I am carrying out at the moment. I believe there may still be elements of this story to come but for now, here is the story of Private Edwin Algernon Swinnerton who, through his own subterfuge, met his end in 1917 and is still recorded by the CWGC as Edward, although hopefully this is soon about to change. But to get to the end we have to start at the beginning.
Edwin Algernon Swinnerton was born on the 21st of December 1900. He was born in Green Lane, Walsall, less than 200 yards from where I am sitting now. They were not a well to do family, his parents, William and Ann, were illiterate. The coming of the war in 1914 galvanised the people of the Country and Walsall responded too. By the first Christmas of the war some thirteen men of the Parish of St. Andrew in the Birchills area of Walsall had been killed. By August of 1915 Edwin had made up his mind to enlist. He was 14 years and 219 days of age when he enlisted at Darlaston on the 3rd of August and became a Private in the Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment (the Sherwood Foresters.) Being so greatly under age would have been a problem for Edwin so he made some subtle changes. He gave his first name as Edward, changed his address from 29 Margaret St. to 29 Market St and declared himself to be 19 years and 154 days old. I suspect he enlisted at Darlaston rather than Walsall in the hope that he was less likely to be recognised in Darlaston. These changes, though small, cause great consternation in the spring of 1917. On his attestation papers his height is recorded as five feet and half an inch with a chest measurement of just 30 inches. He weighed just 100 pounds or just seven stones two pounds.Small for a boy of fourteen let alone a man of 19. He joined his Regiment at derby on the 7th of August.
On the 11th of August 1915 Edwin (Edward) was examined by the Medical Officer in charge who wrote on his medical papers Defective physique and obviously under age. Proposed for discharge on AF B.204. Unfit for the duties of a soldier. The next day he received his first innoculation with more later in August and September. By 14th March 1916 he is still in the Army and appears to have been sent to Aldershot for a Medical Board. it seems clear Edwin wanted to remain in the Army and fought to do so. The result of the Medical Board was that he was fit for home service only. The literate members of the family were showing concern that Edwin was still in the Army and on the 10th of March 1916 an Aunt wrote to the Army as follows…..
Dear Sir,
I herewith enclose Certificate of Birth of Private E A Swinnerton no 28683 as requested from which you will see that he was only 15 years of age on December 21st. Trusting to hear further from you and thanking you in anticipation.
The reply on the 18th of March 1916 from Army Records to the 18th Battalion Sherwood Foresters was as follows…..
The Birth Certificate forwarded is that of Edwin Algernon Swinnerton where as No28683 serving in your Battalion is Edward Swinnerton who does not appear to me to be one and the same person therefore I am unable to take action.
The Army had him and were keeping him. It seems that as he was to be fit for home service only this placated the family somewhat. In April 1916, Edwin was transferred to the 3rd and then later the 18th Battalion of the Durham Light Infantry. I can imagine the family’s relief was palpable that Edwin was to remain UK based. But there is more to come….
Part two follows.
Regards,
kev35
By: Lincoln 7 - 9th November 2012 at 13:39
Scott. I agree with your comments re Andy and Kev.
Jim.
Lincoln .7
By: Scott Marlee - 9th November 2012 at 12:35
Andy, 15yrs old, I know it’s true, but did he have to give up the life he had not even started, for the sake of King and Country?. He should have been refused to enter the armed forces at that age’
Jim.
Lincoln .7
i believe Jim, a lot of lads in those days, lied about their age to go forward and fight for king and country, as there wasnt any of this ID/CRB checks and what not back then, ( or if so, not as vigorous) however im guessing the likes of Andy Saunders or Kev etc could shed more light, think they may be a bit more clued up on the subject
Regards
By: charliehunt - 9th November 2012 at 09:08
And all I did yesterday was to moan about the price of a product we buy at Tescos, which had gone up by 2p.
How true! At this time of year, particularly, my daily concerns are put into sharp perspective by the events of nearly a century ago and I wish I had known the grandfather who never lived to share it with me – or not perhaps.
By: Lincoln 7 - 9th November 2012 at 08:53
Andy, 15yrs old, I know it’s true, but did he have to give up the life he had not even started, for the sake of King and Country?. He should have been refused to enter the armed forces at that age’
And all I did yesterday was to moan about the price of a product we buy at Tescos, which had gone up by 2p.
Sort of brings home the things that do matter in reality.
Nice photos BTW.but very sad.
Jim.
Lincoln .7
By: charliehunt - 9th November 2012 at 08:50
Over the years I have made many visits to the various sites of battles and memorials of the Great War and of course to dozens of cemeteries.
For some reason the most moving on many levels were the German cemeteries at Menen and Langemark. Perhaps it is because one becomes so familiar with the rows of white crosses that the stark sight of rows and rows of flat stones interspersed with occasional black basalt crosses produces a sense of desolation. I have been four or five times and each visit has been chilling.
Sign In
November 9, 2012 at 8:29 am