Schneider Racing Aircraft, Some Pics

Hi Mark

Unfortunately nothing on the reverse of the photos. The only ones with comments are from his photo albums of WW1 when he was flying for the RNAS.
Keith

Goldenstar,

Wonderful images. Thank you for posting.

May I ask if anything is written on the reverse?

Mark

More photos

Here are a few, rather weatherbeaten, photos of my Great Uncle Leonard Slatter who was the training officer of the 1927 Schneider Cup bid in Italy.

Keith

A wedding lock present for Ya TurboNZ(Chris) mate, The Iti plane’s and stuff again!!!!.

Thanks for the info, dhfan.

Cheers
TNZ

Does the Gannet have completely independent powerplant to prop units too ?
ie able to fly on one engine and prop with other unit stopped & prop feathered?

Also how closely related were the “R” engines of the S-6 series to the Kestrel and Merlin ?
Apologies if this has already been discussed before, I am totally fascinated with the S Cup racers !! 🙂

Cheers
TNZ

The Gannet is powered by a Double Mamba. It is installed as one unit but is two separate engines and can fly on one.

The R was based on the Buzzard which was originally designed as a larger version of the Kestrel, at the same time as the Kestrel.

Later the R was the original basis for the Griffon although there were so many mods and revisions I doubt there was anything left of the R.

The Merlin was a clean sheet of paper design based on Kestrel, Buzzard(?) and R experience.

Thanks Papa Lima,

COMPLETELY independent !! That answers it.

Yes and that Spoontoon website is a bit weird 😀

Cheers

TNZ

Fiat AS.6: “The crankshaft on the front engine had a large gearwheel on the back driving a hollow propeller shaft lying between the cylinder blocks. The rear crankshaft had a similar gearwheel on the front to drive a second shaft down the centre of the first. . . . the two shafts drove contrarotating propellers . . .”
From page 133 of “The Development of Piston Aero Engines” by Bill Gunston, which also examines the relationship between the “R” engines, Kestrel and Merlin.

Whats the story behind the V-32 & Sea Salamander ?

They just artists fantasy impressions or real considerations?

TNZ

I googled the name of the artist on the V32 and came up with one of the strangest websites I´ve ever seen!

The internet is truly an odd place.

http://spontoon.rootoon.com/

A bit of imaginative searching on Pathe (www.britishpathe.com) will let you have low res downloads and high res watermarked stills from their footage of the races. plus sound in the later ones. Sound won’t be ‘original’ as it was almost always dubbed on later. Still, it won’t be a Bell 47 soundtrack!

Does the Gannet have completely independent powerplant to prop units too ?
ie able to fly on one engine and prop with other unit stopped & prop feathered?

Stormbird Phil, you’re right !! You only have to look at www.luft46.com to see that !!! 😮
The Salamander will always be one of those “what ifs” …

Are there any mpegs or avis available on the Schneider Cup races ?
I would LOVE to hear and see the Macchi start up movie like that (poorly) quoted text stated..

Also how closely related were the “R” engines of the S-6 series to the Kestrel and Merlin ?
Apologies if this has already been discussed before, I am totally fascinated with the S Cup racers !! 🙂

Cheers
TNZ

“Each moving a propeller” – since the propellers turned in opposite directions and no gearbox or propeller translation unit is visible, the two engines must have had coaxial shafts and been completely independent!
As a professional translator myself, I deplore the poor quality of the quoted text.

V-32 and Sea salamander

Mine TOO :rolleyes: , And yes Chris, The V-32 and Sea Salamander are a joke I think? :confused: , But saying that the Salamanders Engine position would have allowed it to take to the water, Another what if?, With the V-32, Well the Germans Had two Engines together for the 177 bomber, Which caused them a lot of Problems :p , Not the same set up as the Macchis, I can not think off hand right now if they tried the same set up or simlar in a plane :confused: , But with the Germans anything WAS possible :rolleyes: , Good topics Gents, Cheers, 😉 Tally Ho! Phil (p.s. Great painting Chris) :dev2:

I agree.

What I make of it is that the engines could and were started independently and I guess the props spun independently, but…..

“Behind this propeller stand a singular twin engine, obtained coupling on the same axle”
If that was the case then the 2 engines would be connected together ….

I dunno, my head hurts too !!

TNZ
(PS I think its Italian to English translation)

That made my head hurt too, until…
Looking at the wording, it appears to be a translation (not knowing the nationality of the site) and it makes more sense if you replace axle with axis.
Co-axial shafts doesn’t, to me anyway, infer they’re connected.

This was taken from the website http://www.esparacing.com/Air%20Racing%20History/aircraft/Macchi-Castoli%20%20MC%2072.htm

In the difficult floating phase, torque absence should allow to have a balanced load on the floats: an important aspect, considering that, with 1800HP engine, the left float was loaded 23% more than right one. In 1931 Supermarine S-6B with 2650HP was 32% overloaded, while MC-72 barely reached 3% even with 3000HP. Behind this propeller stand a singular twin engine, obtained coupling on the same axle two 12V, 60 degrees engines directly derived from AS-5, each moving a propeller through two coaxial crankshafts passing through forward engine banks. Air intakes were in the centre, between both engines, while breathing system, composed by a centrifugal compressor and a bank of 8 aspirated carburettors, was single for the whole plant.

The plates “Front Engine” and “Back Engine”, still in the cockpit, show that semi-engines were independent, as confirmed by run-up scene in the famous movie of the record. It seemed the simplest solution, but, as often happens, AS-6 promises were harder to win than expected.

So from this, they were independently run but geared to the props together? :confused:

Cheers
TNZ

Would anyone know how the engines in the Macchi are coupled together? Or how they managed to start the beast?

I’m not sure they were coupled together. They drove what appeared to be a contraprop, but I believe, like the Gannet each engine had it’s own prop.

Just looked back at JDK’s pic and you can see they’re totally separate.
Look at the pitch on those props!

Here’s a beautiful painting of the awesome Macchi-Castoli MC72..
(http://www.sarsfield.com)

I think a M-72 red job is in a Museum in Italy 🙂 , Forgot it name its on a lake shore, I tried to get a picture of it 🙁 , As I had seen it in an issue of Classic Wings Down under a while back, Good restoration job, It looked fantastic, But I could not get any links working to look inside the place to get a current photo 🙁 , Cheers everyone, Tally Ho! 😉 Phil,(No comments on the V-32 0r Sea Salamander :p ) :dev2:

Whats the story behind the V-32 & Sea Salamander ?

They just artists fantasy impressions or real considerations?

TNZ

M-72

I think a M-72 red job is in a Museum in Italy 🙂 , Forgot it name its on a lake shore, I tried to get a picture of it 🙁 , As I had seen it in an issue of Classic Wings Down under a while back, Good restoration job, It looked fantastic, But I could not get any links working to look inside the place to get a current photo 🙁 , Cheers everyone, Tally Ho! 😉 Phil,(No comments on the V-32 0r Sea Salamander :p ) :dev2: