Scottish armed forces – what might they look like?

I take your point on board, but what people want now isn’t necessarily what’s best in the grand scheme of things. The point I was trying to make is that the current position in both places is pretty good, and most importantly peaceful.

My response to that is that it depends on ‘what is best’ for whom? After Argentina invaded the Falklands it could have been argued that it would have been ‘best in the grand scheme of things’ if Britain had decided to let that ‘peaceful’ situation remain.

I do not think that there is any danger of an independent Scotland and the New United Kingdom ever going to war! 🙂

Ok, thanks Al, I was just curious.

It’s just that I have trouble getting my head around the concept of restoring a British aircraft without having more of a feeling of connection for it than a Starfighter. My mind boggles slightly that you’ll be painting roundels on it that you don’t believe in, especially as the aircraft is located at a place that isn’t a million miles from where so many of them saw service.

Reading the above, I realise it could be read as being a bit glib, but I don’t mean it in any ‘clever’ or point scoring way. I’m just curious.

Al, am I right in thinking you’re currently restoring a Hawker Hunter? If so, can I ask you what you’re doing it for?

What on Earth has that got to do with anything? I’d love to get my hands on a Zero, or an F-104!
I have also restored old Harley-Davidsons, antique dentists lamps, and my old house…:confused:

Does that mean that the language of Scotland will no longer be English and that you will revert to Scottish Gaelic?

Presumably, if you don’t want any part of the United Kingdom (principally England) you won’t want the English language either?
…

Unfortunately, nobody knows what the indigenous Pictish language sounded like, and Gaelic was a Celtic language introduced from Ireland, so is as Scottish as a chapati.

The 2001 census showed there were only 58,650 Gaelic speakers in Scotland, or 1.2% of the population. Would you ask why America continued to speak English?

All well-and-good but the Falkland Islanders don’t want to be Argentine…

…and the Scots (maybe) don’t want to be British!

What matters is what the people want, democratically.

I take your point on board, but what people want now isn’t necessarily what’s best in the grand scheme of things. The point I was trying to make is that the current position in both places is pretty good, and most importantly peaceful.

I’m hoping that people will have the wisdom to leave well alone in both cases.

Al, am I right in thinking you’re currently restoring a Hawker Hunter? If so, can I ask you what you’re doing it for?

I know Andy…so was my 😉

rgds baz

My comment was tongue in cheek, Baz.

Does that mean that the language of Scotland will no longer be English and that you will revert to Scottish Gaelic?

Presumably, if you don’t want any part of the United Kingdom (principally England) you won’t want the English language either?

.

Why ? Quite a few other countries around the worrrld that used to belong to england still have english (sorrrt of ) as their official language 😉

I am an expatriate ‘sweaty sock’ myself,not too bothered aboot independance unless they promise to take us oot of the EU 😀

rrregarrrds baz

Does that mean that the language of Scotland will no longer be English and that you will revert to Scottish Gaelic?

Presumably, if you don’t want any part of the United Kingdom (principally England) you won’t want the English language either?

I am not a Scots basher, by any means. I have lots of Scottish friends, I like the Scots (generally), had a Scottish girlfriend (and still like the Scots!) and love Scotland and yes, like many Brits, I’d be genuinely very sorry if this were to ever happen. I am English through-and-through, but also I’m British and I regard the Union with Scotland to be part of my national heritage – even if I am in a minority. To quote a previous poster:

“I sincerely believe that the move toward Scottish independence is causing far more hurt than is realised, and that many feel that thier nationality would be stolen from them by a Scottish vote for independance”.

As I said…..it would be our flag and we’d have it any bloody colour we liked! :p

….As for the Union Flag and RAF roundels, we’d keep the blue bits…..‘cos it’s our flag and Scotland wouldn’t get a say! :p

Nah – the blue from the saltire is ours! You’ll be sad when we’ve gone…:eek:

All well-and-good but the Falkland Islanders don’t want to be Argentine…

…and the Scots (maybe) don’t want to be British!

What matters is what the people want, democratically.

Well I hope the mods don’t mind, but I’ve gone over to a red font for just this one post because I feel so strongly on this issue. I’d be glad if all of you, whether north or south of the border, would take the time to read it.

There is in fact a common thread running both through this discussion and the one on the Falklands, and there is in fact a similar solution to both.

I would like to state categorically that I was born British. I was born in London and have lived in England all my life, but I have never seen Scotland as something seperate or lesser than England. I love the United Kingdom, we are an example to the world of what can be done when brother nations pull together. All very high and mighty talk I know, but think about it.

I’m not a ‘Scots basher’, and frankly in 31 years of living south of the border I’ve never met any. I sincerely wish that English (and Welsh and NI) people would publicly express thier upset at what is being proposed, and would publicly declare thier affection for Scotland. I think in a reserved English way we’re pretty torn up about it.

Why do things really need to change?? What we have presently is a group of nations that live harmoniously, and we have peace and shared wealth etc. Why do political barriers have to be put up? Surely all it does is make life more difficult for ordinary people, and create stronger feelings of seperation.

I sincerely believe that the move toward Scottish independence is causing far more hurt than is realised, and that many feel that thier nationality would be stolen from them by a Scottish vote for independance.

How does this tie in with the Falklands? Well, the Falklands has a tangled history with regard to claims over sovreignty and we could frankly be here for a fortnight discussing whether the islands are rightfully Spanish, French, American, British or Argentinian (all have had claims on the islands in the past.) The best thing to my mind would be for the international community to focus on what the islands are now, ie. a colony made up of decent people making an honest living, and living in peace. Whether or not they are British is irrelevant to an extent, the fact is that they are there now and what is the point of disturbing global peace for the sake of an ancient territorial claim? The people are there now, and as it happens they would like to remain British. What happenned to the concept of protecting ordinary peace-loving people?

So, in short, my feelings on both are that what currently exists isn’t all that bad and that changes could lead to further animosity. I sincerely feel that ‘stirring things up’ in either case is extremely unhelpful, and that we are all better off together.

It is funny isn’t it, there are two threads going at the moment on here regarding the democratic wishes of British subjects…

…with an almost opposite opinion from most posters depending on if those subjects live in Scotland or the Falklands! :diablo:

(I’m not sure that the Falkland Islanders are actually British subjects anyway. :o)

If the Scottish people vote to be independent then there isn’t really much point in trying to prevent that independence is there. Scotland already has its own government for so many issues (but Scottish MPs still get to vote on non-Scottish issues at Westminster).

I suspect that the way many Scots feel about the UK is pretty similar to the way many British feel about the EU; we think we’d be ‘better off’ if we were out of it. I doubt that this would prove to be correct in either case but that isn’t really the issue is it.

The ownership of ‘North Sea oil’ seems to be the main argument in being ‘better off’ but it should be remembered that the UK doesn’t ‘own’ the oil really; we permit commercial oil companies to extract it and you can bet that the UK extracts every penny that it can in tax revenue from these oil companies. Any higher taxes and those oil companies wouldn’t bother drilling for it!

Any thoughts of ‘nationalising’ said oil companies would break EU rules and any notion of simply seizing the oil would send Scotland back to the dark ages in terms of inward investment (which Scotland couldn’t prosper without).

My main fear with the armed forces of an independent Scotland is that the UK (and Scotland) would become more marginalised in any future European military project…..and look what a balls-up our European partners have made of Eurofighter and A400M.

As for the Union Flag and RAF roundels, we’d keep the blue bits…..‘cos it’s our flag and Scotland wouldn’t get a say! :p

The post-independence UK Air Force roundel might not catch on though…;)

@Al
5 people voting to rape and murder a 6th person is also democracy.

@richw_82
Indeed, the independence has to go through Westminster. The government has said however, that they don’t intend to block it, and TBH I don’t think many English MPs would be that bothered by Scotland leaving!

@richw_82
I’ve yet to see anyone with an opinion poll showing that people would vote in favour.

@spitfireman
I too am very much looking forward to watching the Scottish National Party spend big using their vast pot of oil, which they claim to be so very sufficient! Let’s see if these wells are as deep as they suggest 😉

The devil is in the detail….while the SNP win votes with broad soundbite campaign ideas it is the detail of how, when and why changes will be made and funded which is needed.
If this detail can be made available ahead of voting for rational discussion I will be very surprised.
And any armed force will look little different apart from badges.

As a Scot living in England, it would also effectively make me a foreigner in my own country.

Wouldn’t be your country.

Independence means much much more than just cash

Complete cr@p. All the jocks I served with, after a few beers and between renditions of ‘o flower of scotland’ and something completely unintelligable would then proceed to lecture us English on how they would govern their independant nation using the revenue from their oil. Heard it too many times over the last thirty years.

on the contrary, they couldn’t wait to get rid of dear old Blighty…

Yes, we get the picture……..

How tall are you going to build your wall?

Will we need passports to enter your kingdom?

Could we deport David Coulthard?

Al, I really don’t think the average bloke on the street in England is going to give a rats ass with the independence of Scotland. Its only you that brings up the Empire and the Commonwealth, in this day and age there’s more to worry about than Empires.

The problem, probably at the heart of the matter, is the Declaration of Arbraoath was seen by many as being betrayed in the Treaty of Union.

Shows how long this has been rumbling on, doesn’t it?

I suppose a proper referendum in Scotland would find out how much support there would be.

Apparently the wording isn’t in the treaty of Union but in the Declaration of Arbroath which states that the Scottish people will always have the prerogative in any decisions. I can’t confirm as I haven’t read the Declaration of Arbroath.