Scottish armed forces – what might they look like?

….Council flat, Bognor Regis:rolleyes:

Ah, how the mighty have fallen. 🙂

One good thing would certainly see the exclusion of Scottish MPs from Westminster.

Here’s a wee piper to send them on their way

No, the principles were indeed the perfect stance for Thatch. to be a great leader of the day. But, the threat of the UK losing “Easy” access to it’s bit of the Antarctic…or the bit we think is ours in accordance with the 1959 Antarctic treaty….and the vast reserves of Oil, Gas, Gold, probably diamonds and and and and was a very serious consideration.

Well whatever the oil/gas/diamond situation (from all I’ve read, I think you may be overstating things a bit), the war was still largely about principle and the rights of people to live peacefully without threat of invasion.

Of course there is much more of a connection there with any British aircraft – there’s a very good chance some of the scientists, designers, and engineers involved in the production of aircraft (and other technologies) were Scottish, so it will always be of special significance. We had a part in it.

But I doubt if many Scots would describe themselves as being British – it’s just something that was foisted on us after Culloden…

I can’t help seeing that as an odd way of putting it. It’s very true that scottish engineers and inventors etc have played a big part in British engineering over the years, but surely the whole point is that it’s British engineering??? It’s something we achieved together, something to be proud of and surely something worth carrying forward?

I asked you about your work on the Hunter specifically because I see the aviation heritage sector as a very odd one for an anti-British Scot to be involved with. Again I’m not Scot bashing, it’s just that if you look at all the great British aircraft of the last 100 years they are all ours, not yours and mine seperately. You work on something that was built in a united Britain, and yet you decide to single out the Scottish element. Why???

As a further thought, if Scotland were to go it alone then I wonder if there would be a general rejection and lack of interest in aviation museums in Scotland? Would Scots bother to go and admire a Bucc or a Hunter when they represent the old UK? Countries with borders re-invented in modern times frequently decide to lose inconvenient bits of thier history, and I can’t help feeling that Scottish aviation and industrial etc museums might do badly because of the connection with England.

One good thing would certainly see the exclusion of Scottish MPs from Westminster.

Several years too late in the case of the incompetent blunderer who wrecked our economy.

Moggy

One good thing would certainly see the exclusion of Scottish MPs from Westminster.

As I said previously, I am very very far from ant-Scot. On the contrary. But I do find most Scottish MPs singularly odious, one way or another.

Why can’t Scotland settle with the parliament they’ve got already

Why can’t Scotland settle with the parliament they’ve got already ?

Wales settled their affairs speedily and brought and retained business that is still sustaining (ie aerospace).

Why does an island have to have a system that the First Minister wants?

Divide this island and there will be nothing anywhere as Europe will capitalise on it.

In Germany they took the division down (good or bad).

I have many Scots friends, business colleagues and am also aware of the number of Anglo-Scots marriages and relationships that are surviving, why suddenly this severe push to be primarily anti English?

Scots have excellent brains especially scientific and technical ones and could be providing a powerhouse in UK development. I shall ignore the lack of brains in the 2 banks and the former prime minister and his chancellor.

Why also the direct discrimination towards English and Welsh trying to study forward of now in Scottish Universities with respect to astronomical fees?

Aren’t these indications of something more sinister in the word Nationalist in the SNP name than they are portraying just now?

Having lived there I can happily say that some of them are simply ultra right disguised as ‘sheep’. They are welcoming non EU labour to sort out care home staffing issues with false promises of visa extensions, and also non EU students in universities to grab the fees.

This is not a simple fight for independence it is a pure power trip by a few individuals with brains similar to fish.

No one denies living costs in Scotland due to extreme and sometimes longer winters is something Westminster must accept and a enhanced pay structure (similar to London weighting) should be agreed upon speedily and also this extreme weather puts a heavier burden on health care costs. By changing taxation purely in Scotland it causes havoc of a scale unimaginable in UK HMRC and NI.

.

No 3 If you like we really dont mind but doesnt he live in Monaco?

….Council flat, Bognor Regis:rolleyes:

@Creaking Door

I do not want to prevent Scottish independence. What some of us would like however, is to watch the SNP try to balance their budget with Scotland’s share of North Sea oil and gas which they are forever harping on about, but this is mainly for our own entertainment!

I am completely in favour of democratic resolution, but I am also in favour of equality on the vote. Therefore, I feel that not only should Scotland get a referendum on independence, but the rest of the UK should also get a referendum on whether Scotland is allowed to remain in the UK. If in either case Scotland is voted out, they must leave.

Salmond: “We got’s oil…”

No 1 we dont need a wall. It was the Romans who built one to keep us out. 🙂

No 2 Hmmmm No Passports I dont think causes too much hassle. You can place machine gun towers far cheaper than you can process passports so maybe that is the way forward.

No 3 If you like we really dont mind but doesnt he live in Monaco?

And as for Empires thats when Britain really was Great. When she had a sense of pride in their Empire. Misguided or not in taking part of the Empire over it was a very good time for this country. It only started to fall apart when we started to give it back.

Point 1: Scotland may well need a wall or fence, since from what I’ve heard about Salmonds policies he will have a different system with things like VAT and alcohol pricing, which will encourage illegal importation.

Point 2: Scotland will need to choose whether they want to join the Schengen area or not. Salmond seems pro-EU, so it’s possible he might join. The UK is completely against. If Scotland joins the Schengen area, then passports will be required.

Not sure if the oil belongs to Scotland

Is this ‘without any blue on it’ permanent or just until the oil runs out in 40 years?:rolleyes:

Not sure if the oil belongs to Scotland or will the esteemed loud mouth First Minister take over or take on the large oil giants as well. I am not aware that they are all registered as Scottish companies.

I am also unsure about 40 years for oil (maybe gas but the oil peaked some time back) and future rigs will be outside Scottish waters.

I think the revenue may have to be based on Heather, Salmon, Whisky (many are foreign owned now) and hot air from the SNP.

I hate to think what the civil service budget will be to administer a variance in NI for Scotland and unique taxation for persons and companies.

Never mind kilt wearing armed forces – hope they remember the Queen is still on the thrown and the rule about undies;) unlike the Carry on Up The Khyber pic in a post above. Special Tartan Flying overalls for flying crews at Leuchars relocated to God finally knows where still hopefully in Eurofighters:cool: and not Microlights:D.

The man is an utter loonie born with historical ideals

How tall are you going to build your wall?

Will we need passports to enter your kingdom?

Could we deport David Coulthard?

No 1 we dont need a wall. It was the Romans who built one to keep us out. 🙂

No 2 Hmmmm No Passports I dont think causes too much hassle. You can place machine gun towers far cheaper than you can process passports so maybe that is the way forward.

No 3 If you like we really dont mind but doesnt he live in Monaco?

And as for Empires thats when Britain really was Great. When she had a sense of pride in their Empire. Misguided or not in taking part of the Empire over it was a very good time for this country. It only started to fall apart when we started to give it back.

Good points, but I’d already thought about them 😀 .

The Falklands conflict of 1982 was about principles, at the time there was little or no talk about possible oil and gas reserves and the islands had a very small economy. The war had to be fought in order that similar actions were not given the green light in the rest of the world, aswell as restoring British authority in the Falklands. Argentina acted as an aggressor, Britian as defender and liberator. Whatever Argentina’s feelings about the ‘Malvinas’, invasion was not the way to go about it, especially when someone like Galtieri and his henchmen were in power. In the end, the status quo was restored in the Falklands, and Galtieri’s government collapsed as a kind of bonus.

As for war between the dis-United Kingdom and an independent Scotland, I agree the chances are remote. I didn’t just mean peace in terms of warfare, I meant peace in general daily life and peace in a nation’s economy. Independence is always a bit of a gamble, and in this case we need to ask whether it’s worth it.

No, the principles were indeed the perfect stance for Thatch. to be a great leader of the day. But, the threat of the UK losing “Easy” access to it’s bit of the Antarctic…or the bit we think is ours in accordance with the 1959 Antarctic treaty….and the vast reserves of Oil, Gas, Gold, probably diamonds and and and and was a very serious consideration.

Somebody said that it is up to the people (In Scotl;and) to decide what they want. Hmm, that’s dodgy. I offer that 50% of voters (Maybe more) do not fully comprehend what they actually vote for.

Please allow a question from across the Atlantic…

If the Baltic states and former Soviet republics (not to mention places in Asia, Africa, small Pacific islands, etc.) can survive as an independent country, why not Scotland? Or by the same token, Quebec in Canada?

Who knows with EU and international aid, they might come out ahead on the deal? 🙂 🙂 🙂

… and one thing I do dislike is the idea of other regions of the UK being treated as lesser members.

….bit like Cornwall.

Once Scotland get their independence I guess Kernow will rise up for their independence, followed by Rutland, Kent and Blackpool.:rolleyes:

Unfortunately, nobody knows what the indigenous Pictish language sounded like, and Gaelic was a Celtic language introduced from Ireland, so is as Scottish as a chapati.

The 2001 census showed there were only 58,650 Gaelic speakers in Scotland, or 1.2% of the population. Would you ask why America continued to speak English?

As I said earlier, Al….I was being tongue-in-cheekish.

You could always invent a new language to go with the new nation. Anyway, I thought William Wallace spoke with a distinctly Australian accent? :p;)

Ok, thanks Al, I was just curious.

It’s just that I have trouble getting my head around the concept of restoring a British aircraft without having more of a feeling of connection for it than a Starfighter. My mind boggles slightly that you’ll be painting roundels on it that you don’t believe in, especially as the aircraft is located at a place that isn’t a million miles from where so many of them saw service.

Reading the above, I realise it could be read as being a bit glib, but I don’t mean it in any ‘clever’ or point scoring way. I’m just curious.

Of course there is much more of a connection there with any British aircraft – there’s a very good chance some of the scientists, designers, and engineers involved in the production of aircraft (and other technologies) were Scottish, so it will always be of special significance. We had a part in it.

But I doubt if many Scots would describe themselves as being British – it’s just something that was foisted on us after Culloden…

In a sense, yes it is Scotland’s risk to take, however in another very big way it isn’t. As things stand, we are in things more or less together, financially, militarily etc. That means that whatever one party does has an affect on the others. Is it right for Scotland to ‘inflict’ changes on the other members of the UK, and is it really worth it? It relates back to the question of ‘stolen’ identity.

I can understand wholeheartedly that London seems a million miles from Clydebank, for example, and one thing I do dislike is the idea of other regions of the UK being treated as lesser members. I would like to see the UK remain united, with devolved government if necessary, but I would like to see a UK that treats the various parties more equally. I live in London alot of the time and it often strikes me as a God-foresaken place, a nation that abided by London’s every whim would be a frightening place to live in! The nation is better off for the character brought to it by places like Derby, Dundee, Hexham, Glasgow etc etc.

As a slight aside, it has crossed my mind that Scottish independence could potentially cheapen Scottishness. As things stand, the Scottish character is alive and well, an example to the reserved English of what a proud nation is supposed to look like. Scotland is all the greater for existing so strongly despite being part of a union, Scottishness is something that doesn’t need a national badge.

The Falklands conflict of 1982 was about principles…

I pretty much agree with everything you’ve said about the Falklands.

You make a good point about the risks of independence but isn’t it Scotland’s risk to take?

Has any one asked the inhabitants of the Orkneys and Shetland what they want?(apart from warmer weather and more daylight) I think a lot of the oilfields would be in their waters.

Good points, but I’d already thought about them 😀 .

The Falklands conflict of 1982 was about principles, at the time there was little or no talk about possible oil and gas reserves and the islands had a very small economy. The war had to be fought in order that similar actions were not given the green light in the rest of the world, aswell as restoring British authority in the Falklands. Argentina acted as an aggressor, Britian as defender and liberator. Whatever Argentina’s feelings about the ‘Malvinas’, invasion was not the way to go about it, especially when someone like Galtieri and his henchmen were in power. In the end, the status quo was restored in the Falklands, and Galtieri’s government collapsed as a kind of bonus.

As for war between the dis-United Kingdom and an independent Scotland, I agree the chances are remote. I didn’t just mean peace in terms of warfare, I meant peace in general daily life and peace in a nation’s economy. Independence is always a bit of a gamble, and in this case we need to ask whether it’s worth it.