So called British Nationals Fighting for IS – Revoke British passports?

The interesting thing is that after i believe 12 years of war in Afghan and i think it was 7 in Iraq there are still people who advocate streaming in and using force to solve the issue. Is Afghan really a stable and prospeous nation again? Iraq clearly isn’t.
It is rather dis-heartening that some humans seem incapable of using the one ability that differentiates them from the other animals, the ability to think, to actually bother to understand that whilst force may indeed be an element of the answer it is never going to be the only answer.
Frustrating and crap as it may be the only way to defeat such stupid ideologies as fundamentalism in all it’s forms is to understand the causes of it and address those. One of the elements used may indeed be force but it should always be accompanied by other strategies.

You don’t make it easy, do you!

With reports of another hostage sadly meeting his fate at the hands of IS and almost daily pronouncements from deluded British women out in Syria its time there was any pretence this threat is going away !

And, I ask again, how do you propose to do that?

You need to read rather than cut and paste – I am not proposing anything in that statement -I am saying there is a clear and present threat which isn’t going to evaporate.

As for the rest of your text -there are boots on the ground -there are aircraft in the sky and there are airstrikes being directed by drone and fast jets. Some part of you doesn’t understand that the West’s war
against IS is well and truly started.

Yes, the war is starting to roll. But the boots on the ground at the moment are not western front line boots, worn by trained soldiers ready to go into action. Action in Afghanistan (and Pakistan) has shown that what shows up on air recon images and real time drone footage is either misinterpreted or plain ignored, resulting in bad feeling by the families and survivors of missile attacks on wedding parties, for example. Nothing replaces good old expertise on the ground, as we will discover when the Kurds complain they’ve suffered casualties from friendly fire or groups of fleeing civilians are blown up by mistake, witnessed by Al Jazeera or some other news team that can’t be paid off.

Do we let the Iraqi military have the keys to the toy box again -ehh IS is in Iraq -I cannot see why you would even suggest that the Iraqi Army wouldn’t be supplied with weapons ! . A great number of arms
have come from numerous countries -are you suggesting every Army in the region should disarm in case they get attacked and loose their weapons???

No. I am suggesting that IS was embarrassingly able to obtain weapons and munition’s from armouries left deserted by those who could have used them for the defence of their localities and their people rather than disappear – as happened, apparently, numerous times – several hours before IS arrived.
The Afghan government is in chaos and so is the military; why not give it all to the Kurds instead?

Iraq’s neighbours aren’t interested; maybe Iran, undoubtedly with their own agenda, but who else? -‘maybe Iran’ -Iran has been operating drones in Iraq for some time – they have also had Republican guards fighting in Syria to support Assad. They support the Assad regime -you seem to have failed to notice .

Not failed to notice: concentrated more on the situation in Iraq, where there has been little apparent from Kuwait or Saudi Arabia. The other Arabic states haven’t displayed much either – more interested in bombing Libya through Egypt, maybe.

BUT Iraq’s neighbours need to be involved, they need to make a decision about where their own best interests lay, because IS doesn’t need to halt at Iraq’s borders. -IS formed in Syria and came into Iraq -therefore Iraq’s neighbours are already involved and IS hasn’t halted at any border so far.

Is it really a NATO thing? Might it not be a UN thing? Shouldn’t we go by the book this time and not go play Rambo in someone else’s country by our collective selves, bullying others into either being with us or against us?

I guess your also unaware of the conduct of UN soldiers in Bosnia who did little to stop genocide -are you really suggesting peacekeepers against fanatical Islam ??? How about a group of girl guides ???

Fully aware of the blunder with the Dutch in Bosnia, and the embarrassment that occurred in Rwanda too. But try measuring up the reputations of armies who have worn the UN blue beret against the reputation world-wide of Britain and America after going against the UN mandates in Iraq and Afghanistan…We look like gung ho bullies to nearly the entire world, no matter how justified you may feel those action’s were – that and doing stupid things like shooting dead wounded Afghans on video camera (and all the things, crazy stupid and bored shoot ups, murders, gunning down for kicks, even rape, that the US forces did in Iraq) does rather justify their actions in the minds of those wannabes who flee to Syria to be a martyr for IS.

What exactly do you mean by go by the ‘book’ ??? Which book exactly ??

It is a term of phrase, an idiom: going by the book, for example. I am surprised you’ve never heard it.
It means to follow the rules, in this case not to jump in and go mediaeval-stylee hacking and slaying before finding out exactly what we are fighting for, who we are fighting for and against, where we are going, and why it can only be us who gets involved, again.

Last time they used a UN resolution for the start of military action -is there anything above that ???

Oh, you got me there. Care to remind…?

As for playing Rambo – he was a fictional character that you seem to be fixated with !

NOOOOOOOOOO! Say it ain’t so…
You really have no idea how many soldiers modelled their ‘war’ personas on Stallone’s character?
Colonel Tim Collins (Royal Irish Regiment, retired) advised his troops before the invasion of Iraq to ignore what he referred to as the Rambo training video, giving them all a good laugh. A Croatian unit, under the command of an HVO officer called Rajic, fired up it’s men by showing them non stop Rambo movies when they weren’t in action, during the Bosnian war. I believe the SAS use the name for anyone displaying a sort of stupid gunfighter attitude – to go steaming in and expect to catch everybody off guard with little regard for themselves or possible hostages, etc.
As for my being fixated…I think I’ve mentioned the name twice. There is a slight chance I’m possibly more fixated with the word mollycoddle or maybe even Kurds (certainly used that word several times, but only on this thread), so I guess you are reaching a little too hard there.

Laughable your hanging onto the notion that there is any ‘for’ or ‘against’! -they are against and you will find its not a case of changing minds -its a case of eradication.

Eager as you appear to be to jump to conclusions, you appear to have grabbed the rather smelly end of the stick…;o)
For or against, I was not referring to IS but – as I said, if you’d care to read it again – the bullying that goes into twisting the metaphorical arms of other nations into doing what we tell them. Who can forget Freedom Fries and the Cheese-eating Surrender Monkeys, for example…both terms used to show that some were not America’s allies, in this case criticising France, and therefore they were against American plans.

With reports of another hostage sadly meeting his fate at the hands of IS and almost daily pronouncements from deluded British women out in Syria its time there was any pretence this threat is going away !

And, I ask again, how do you propose to do that?

You need to read rather than cut and paste – I am not proposing anything in that statement -I am saying there is a clear and present threat which isn’t going to evaporate.

As for the rest of your text -there are boots on the ground -there are aircraft in the sky and there are airstrikes being directed by drone and fast jets. Some part of you doesn’t understand that the West’s war
against IS is well and truly started.

Do we let the Iraqi military have the keys to the toy box again -ehh IS is in Iraq -I cannot see why you would even suggest that the Iraqi Army wouldn’t be supplied with weapons ! . A great number of arms
have come from numerous countries -are you suggesting every Army in the region should disarm in case they get attacked and loose their weapons???

Iraq’s neighbours aren’t interested; maybe Iran, undoubtedly with their own agenda, but who else? -‘maybe Iran’ -Iran has been operating drones in Iraq for some time – they have also had Republican guards fighting in Syria to support Assad. They support the Assad regime -you seem to have failed to notice .

BUT Iraq’s neighbours need to be involved, they need to make a decision about where their own best interests lay, because IS doesn’t need to halt at Iraq’s borders. -IS formed in Syria and came into Iraq -therefore Iraq’s neighbours are already involved and IS hasn’t halted at any border so far.

Is it really a NATO thing? Might it not be a UN thing? Shouldn’t we go by the book this time and not go play Rambo in someone else’s country by our collective selves, bullying others into either being with us or against us?

I guess your also unaware of the conduct of UN soldiers in Bosnia who did little to stop genocide -are you really suggesting peacekeepers against fanatical Islam ??? How about a group of girl guides ???

What exactly do you mean by go by the ‘book’ ??? Which book exactly ?? Last time they used a UN resolution for the start of military action -is there anything above that ???

As for playing Rambo – he was a fictional character that you seem to be fixated with !

Laughable your hanging onto the notion that there is any ‘for’ or ‘against’! -they are against and you will find its not a case of changing minds -its a case of eradication.

With reports of another hostage sadly meeting his fate at the hands of IS and almost daily pronouncements from deluded British women out in Syria its time there was any pretence this threat is going away !

And, I ask again, how do you propose to do that?

Its time that NATO views this as incredibly serious and let the A-10’s -Apaches and Tornados loose to hunt at will !

Are you saying we should have boots on the ground? You want aircraft there, but how would they be directed (we all know how successful air strikes are, such a shame the locals in Afghanistan, for example, ruefully believe different) unless there are people on the ground – which both Britain and the US have seemingly ruled out.
And let us look at the big picture: what happens when (if?) IS is eventually obliterated – do we leave it for the Iraqi government to make the big decisions until the next bunch of fundamentalists walk in? Do we let the Iraqi military have the keys to the toy box again – I mean, they have shown us that they are not totally sold on the idea that they need to stand and fight for their country, although one way or another they have happily supplied IS with weapons and ammunition. But the US and Britain had withdrawn all (or near enough all) troops before IS walked in and the public has no interest in maintaining a presence in Iraq nor loosing troops at the rate of one or two a week (if we are lucky), so what happens?
Iraq’s neighbours aren’t interested; maybe Iran, undoubtedly with their own agenda, but who else? The Kurds are doing a magnificent job, but they will want something at the end of it – a homeland that some of the neighbours will fight tooth and nail against. BUT Iraq’s neighbours need to be involved, they need to make a decision about where their own best interests lay, because IS doesn’t need to halt at Iraq’s borders.

Is it really a NATO thing? Might it not be a UN thing? Shouldn’t we go by the book this time and not go play Rambo in someone else’s country by our collective selves, bullying others into either being with us or against us?

With reports of another hostage sadly meeting his fate at the hands of IS and almost daily pronouncements from deluded British women out in Syria its time there was any pretence this threat is going away !

Its time that NATO views this as incredibly serious and let the A-10’s -Apaches and Tornados loose to hunt at will !

Then I guess it is all down to whether you feel confident enough in yourself and in the understanding of others of any such word when you use it!
Were I on the mean streets of Brixton or Handsworth where it is probably the norm then I might feel comfortable, but elsewhere it would be another matter (and I live elsewhere!).

Hi All,
Paul,
Don’t know about bacon but I ad a sausage sandwich earlier! :highly_amused: Just glad Sue still feeds me to be honest! 😀
Snafu,
I found this on wiki and the last paragraph seems to fit your honourable questioning ?

P A K I acquired offensive connotations in the 1960s when used by British tabloids to refer to subjects of former colony states in a derogatory and racist manner. In modern British usage P A K I is typically a derogatory label used for all South Asians, including Indians, Afghans and Bangladeshis. To a lesser extent, it has also been applied to Arabs and others perceived to resemble South Asians. During the 60’s many emigrants were also dubbed as “black” to further segregate them from the white community. Some would say such a division still exists in parts of England.

In recent times there has been a trend by second and third-generation British Pakistanis to reclaim the word, so that it can be used between young British Pakistanis, but not by outsiders, even Indians and Bangladeshis.

As for the others you mentioned they are all slang for the various peoples from counties over the world. Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons here 😀 Although the term WOG has the same connotations as P A K I it is actually a shortened version of Westernised Oriental Gentleman.

Geoff.

I don’t know. I’m being called a troll by John and (I guess) Charlie since I counter their views; is there a rule against that in the forum code of conduct?

I dare say there will be a deputation along shortly

No, there won’t, but, in your usual overweening arrogant way, you haven’t noticed that the vast majority, on this site, no longer have the slightest interest in your everlasting tirades.

you get the picture?

Precisely; the only person on this forum, who incessantly comes out with these “offensive” words, is you, but, of course, you’re only being demonstrative, so it couldn’t possibly mean that it’s you who are the offensive one, could it?

Would calling you a Troll be termed as offensive by the forum?

You are quite correct about the sausages but the Pakistani-PaIci for short! Before anybody calls racist I refer to Aussie short for Australian,Brit for British
and if a Chinaman is from China,Irish from Ireland why the hell can’t we say a P A K I is from Pakistan without it being termed as racist ? .

Since the term was used as a lazy and offensive reference to all peoples from the Indian subcontinent, and others besides – it is regarded as racist because it is associated with being used in a racist fashion. If you hear someone using that term as a casual reference about somebody, in general conversation, the chances are that one of the first things to come into your mind is a lowering of your opinion about that person; if you use it (or other, similar terms) to the police then you are more likely to encounter a reluctance to pursue your cause (I forget who did the research and when, but the findings apparently demonstrated that it didn’t matter whether the officer was latently racist or not, and was lumped in with a similar reluctance in inner city officers to assist black males making a civil complaint or when they had requested the police to attend an incident).
When Bernard Manning died I clicked on an online video of him performing in a nightclub during, maybe, the early 1970’s and he was almost spraying that word – and others – around in an aggressive and very deliberate way; there was nothing ironic or knowing about it, his use of such language was derogatory and meant as an insult to people from those cultures.

I dare say there will be a deputation along shortly insisting that the word has honourable origins (maybe it has) and should be rehabilitated (um, yeah, good luck with that), but then some people will still define the Chinese as Chinks, every Irishman as Paddy, every Scotsman as Jock, the Germans as Krauts, the Japanese as Nips, etc; you get the picture?

Geoff as long as she gives you your bacon sandwich with her right hand I think you will be OK:)

Charlie,
Please could you PM your e-mail address being as you do not accept PM’s from other members.:eagerness:
Paul,
No I never I’ll have to ask the wife to watch for that. Maybe that’s why the wife gives me my tea with the same hand. :highly_amused:

Geoff.

Thank you Charlie

And Geoff once again I agree with you 100%

BTW have you ever noticed that most Muslims in the corner shop give you your change with their left hand which is regarded as their unclean hand used for doing their toilet ablutions

Paul – last two posts here. http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?129273-Interesting-news-snippets/page6

Hi All,
You are quite correct about the sausages but the Pakistani-PaIci for short! Before anybody calls racist I refer to Aussie short for Australian,Brit for British
and if a Chinaman is from China,Irish from Ireland why the hell can’t we say a P A K I is from Pakistan without it being termed as racist ?
As for being Rapists What in this country ? No way they are all good god fearing people and would never do such a thing 😮 Although correct me if I am wrong the Muslim male believe that they can take a woman after she menstruates for the first time as the girl has become according to the Koran a Woman ?
even though she is under age and legally in this country and still a child.
I remember the then leader of EDL (Not My Favourite Party or any similar!) Tommy Robinson in the centre of Luton during a documentary about him, Asking Muslim men when they collard him about his views of the Muslim faith and his involvement with EDL, he shot back with questions but the one that got the best reaction was what was stated above about Raping kids is o.k. in their faith, they backed off and wouldn’t say anything other than threaten him :confused: So much for a peace loving faith. Yet according to most Muslims,we the so called infidel are the unclean because we eat pork.

Geoff.

No neither have I but I have seen the one for Richmond pork sausages. BTW why are we ignoring the biggest story of all about Pakistani rapists and the gutless wonders to scared to speak out or resign.

Hi All,
All this talk of political correctness and Muslim faith related subjects I have just realised I have not seen a Danish bacon advert for ages am I alone in this or is this another form of the Muslims not to be offended ?

Geoff.

Snafu – what a crass response. Of course my comments only apply to the extremists – that’s who we are discussing in this thread isn’t it?

A fair few have not made that distinction, and 1batfastard did not make that distinction either; that was why I made my ‘crass response’.

And comparing the actions of ISIS with fox hunters is bizarre beyond belief.

Oh I’m not sure I was comparing actions, just demonstrating that the description you gave was applicable to more than just one crazy Islamic faction – my brother is a train spotter, for example, and fits that description of yours perfectly.

I’m reluctant to condemn someone as an idiot but in this case I’ll make a rare exception. His ‘arguments’ are contradictory and threadbare.

Indeed. And your arguments are straight forward and as plush as a Hilton wedding suite, right?

Except…except we never get to see your arguments since as soon as someone questions your view you clam up. Point a finger at me for asking questions, John, call me an idiot but you still have three more fingers pointing back at silent old you. Strange that the ‘rare exceptions’ are both users here who have seemingly contrary view to yours; so while we – sorry, while I – am the idiot who doesn’t bow down to every post you make and is therefore ignored, you can go back to believing that with no dissention to your post then everybody obviously agrees with you.

He is primarily a troll, looking to create opportunities for mischief. This persons comments discredits all notions of civilised discourse.

I pose questions or query your view and you decide that I am a troll whose comments oppose discussion? Would I not be a troll if I didn’t keep posting threads discussing where UKIP members keep inserting their feet firmly in their mouths; would that work with you?

What is it you want exactly – to be able to state your view and not have anyone pose an opposite opinion? Is it that you are unable to discuss why you believe what you think or that you cannot believe some might think differently to you? Not responding doesn’t mean that your view is carried through, just that you will appear to have surrendered, to not debate, to not undertake the simple notion of civilised discourse, in fact.

IGNORE

But I’m still here. You are the one who fails to understand the meaning of a word in the forums name: Discussion.

Yes I tend to agree – his posts are increasingly self indulgent and although I had “ignored” him a few months ago and subsequently rescinded my decision, I will have to “click again”!