Spitfire Mk.IIa P8208

Some-one mentioned a while ago that I ought to contact a Mr Wojtek Matusiak regarding the possiblity of finding further info on Spitfire P8208.

Ive only just got round to this and have no other leads.

Can any one tell me if they know a Mr Wojtek Matusiak and if there is an available channel of contact ?

Thank you
regards
Jon Radford
Rad Aero

Jon,

Send a Personal Message to ‘VoyTech’

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/member.php?u=3740

Mark

Spitfire P8208

Some-one mentioned a while ago that I ought to contact a Mr Wojtek Matusiak regarding the possiblity of finding further info on Spitfire P8208.

Ive only just got round to this and have no other leads.

Can any one tell me if they know a Mr Wojtek Matusiak and if there is an available channel of contact ?

Thank you
regards
Jon Radford
Rad Aero

It Niether has NOTHING to do with you at all merlinmadness,
I wont get into a slanging match. I just felt it was a worthy point to bring up, especailly when so much has been said to me in the past,

Personally I dont care about the spit, Never been keen on them anyway,
I am glad it is being restored, end of ,period,
Thanks

I am not trying to cause trouble, Its just something Ive allways known and wanted to get it out in the open .

Merkle this has nothing to do with you what so ever, so why do you feel you need to get it out in the open.
You never had anything to do with p8208, you are/were not connected to it in any way. You know i talk to one of the main sas members every day, and he says you should back off its nothing to do with you.
All you are doing is diging up the past (not your past even) when it should have been left alone. Stick to things that you are responsible for and know the full story of.
Mr M is happy that P8208 found a good home and holds no animosity about it so no more dragging it up please.

Did not suggest for one moment you were trying to cause trouble, Merkle. I was just trying to put the story straight. George Morley’s efforts were c. 1980-2 I think and certainly pre the 1986 Act. Dilip Sarkar’s recovery was post the 1986 Act and involved MOD so far as I know. The items I acquired from Dilip are those that he recovered and Jon R now has them. Nobody else was involved in that recovery and I am 99.9% that Mr Sarkar did not acquire any of the items previously recovered by George Morley/SAS. Where they went to I have absolutely no idea. It would be interesting to know and I imagine Jon R would like to know, too.

Well, It was along time ago,

From Memory, I Know I left school in 1987, I had joined the SWARG in 1985,
Mr Goerge morley Used to pick myself and Kevin Butler up to take us to events, he was a great man ,sadly no longer with us .

I had only heard abut the Spit when I joined, being told of “Previous” digs,
so the SAS recovery MUST have been Before 86 , More like 83/84, I remember being told a engine was found , and had old oil Barrels tied down to it, But it floated off, only to be found a year later down stream of the river severn.

I am not trying to cause trouble, Its just something Ive allways known and wanted to get it out in the open .

Yes. As Fighterace says, there were “transactions” of items from various other aircraft from the SAS to a third party who also happened to be the recoverer of P8208. I know that those transactions caused some strife and angst. That said, I was not aware of the transfer of any items from P8208 being included in that “transaction” and I am pretty certain that all of the items that came through my hands from P8208, and now with Jon R, were recovered solely by that third party and not by the SAS. However, I stand to be corrected!

In the interests of accuracy, the wreck was certainly recovered AFTER the 1986 PMR Act. The wreckage that Jon R. acquired came, via me, from the person who recovered it and who was not a member of Severnside Aviation Society nor in any way connected to that organisation.

Well being only a stones from me where it crashed its good to see the wreck finally being restored.

I think what Mercle is try to say is that some parts of the spitfire were once in the hands of SAS members, of which some were unaware of of any transactions to a member of the Malvern spitfire society many years later by one of the SAS group.

Malvern spitfire society inturn made the final visit to the site and recovered what remained buried in the mud flats post 1986.

Any how who cares it looks in good hands, but like a man once told me possession is 9/10 of the law your nicked:diablo:

Correct re th datum longerons.
Not sure how far we will go yet, Frame 11 or 12 or 13, something along these lines, but as the old Blue Peter saying goes….’ heres the one we built earlier’…in our work shop 2007.
Hope the pictures are of interest.
regards
Jon

I have known a couple of the Severnside Aviation Society members for many years, and it seems they did’nt get a say in any of this ??, they were the first to find it ,so I have been told in the very early 1980s, and as such the SAS did investigate the site, Way before the PMR 1986 act was in place, from what i was told a member of the SAS sold up the collection when the group folded up, Much to the upset of the many members who had found many of those Items , and never got a say in the matter.
Personally I think it stinks, But that was many moons ago, and I expect water under the bridge now,

I was never a member of the SAS, but knew a couple of members very well, who were one of the main driving forces behind the group, I was a very young member of the SWARG, group, who used to visit places with SAS.

this issue is a very bitter pill to swallow, and I felt it so unfair on the SAS lads,

I dont doubt now I have caused a stir, Not intensional , But I feel compelled to say something about this and in Recognition of the great work compiled by the SAS and its members , as I know it did upset quite a few people, at the time,and I believe still does so .

Now I have said my piece, I expect to be “Swung from the Yard arm” , But it had to be said,

In the interests of accuracy, the wreck was certainly recovered AFTER the 1986 PMR Act. The wreckage that Jon R. acquired came, via me, from the person who recovered it and who was not a member of Severnside Aviation Society nor in any way connected to that organisation.

Good stuff Jon R

I am doing Frame 5 to Frame 13…..if you wish to commute it at the break point of the datum longerons, it will stop about 6 inches aft of Frame 11.

Good luck

Tony

According to Polish Wings 6 it was coded RF*F at Northolt. Author and forum member Wojtek Matusiak might be able to tell you more about it.

I have known a couple of the Severnside Aviation Society members for many years, and it seems they did’nt get a say in any of this ??, they were the first to find it ,so I have been told in the very early 1980s, and as such the SAS did investigate the site, Way before the PMR 1986 act was in place, from what i was told a member of the SAS sold up the collection when the group folded up, Much to the upset of the many members who had found many of those Items , and never got a say in the matter.

Personally I think it stinks, But that was many moons ago, and I expect water under the bridge now,

I think you are safe from the ravages of the yard arm, this kind of thing has happened countless times, groups always go that way, the Essex Aviation Group collection was disposed of in a similar manner with many in the group not having a say. I am sure others can add similar.

Interesting to see some of the bits in situ, I had for a while some of those bits from P8208 glad to see they are coming backtogether, there was a good article on the recovery in After The Battle.

Fair comments sir,
I suspect I would have felt much the same if I had found such an item, although I would have only been a teenage when this particular aircraft was recovered, and as such not had any idea about it, let alone the ability to try and rebuild it.

I trust people wont feel too much resentment considering the passage of time.
As I say the web site will be accessible to every one, and perhaps as some one ‘has to do it’, it happened to be me for the time being, and at least it has stayed in the UK.

If any one has any further historical points of interest on this aircraft regarding service, recovery etc, I will try to add what I can to the site by way of recognition.

regards
Jon

I have known a couple of the Severnside Aviation Society members for many years, and it seems they did’nt get a say in any of this ??, they were the first to find it ,so I have been told in the very early 1980s, and as such the SAS did investigate the site, Way before the PMR 1986 act was in place, from what i was told a member of the SAS sold up the collection when the group folded up, Much to the upset of the many members who had found many of those Items , and never got a say in the matter.
Personally I think it stinks, But that was many moons ago, and I expect water under the bridge now,

I was never a member of the SAS, but knew a couple of members very well, who were one of the main driving forces behind the group, I was a very young member of the SWARG, group, who used to visit places with SAS.

this issue is a very bitter pill to swallow, and I felt it so unfair on the SAS lads,

I dont doubt now I have caused a stir, Not intensional , But I feel compelled to say something about this and in Recognition of the great work compiled by the SAS and its members , as I know it did upset quite a few people, at the time,and I believe still does so .

Now I have said my piece, I expect to be “Swung from the Yard arm” , But it had to be said,

Does anyone know anything about this one ?

It’s dataplate was recently on sale on eBay

I thought I recalled the serial and I was right, its listed as a “survivor” in the book “Spitfires and Polished Metal”, this is the entry…

I thought the following might be of interest to you.

The aircraft you are asking about is Spitfire Mk II b P8208.
Dilip Sarkar had a recovery team that pulled the remains out of the river Severn back in the 80s.
You can read and view images about the recovery at my web site in the MkII section.

www.spitfires.talktalk.net

The point of interest that led this to be listed as a survivor was due to the fact that absolute identity of the remains was confirmed by retrieval of the data plates along with the wing repair plates that bore the call sign P8208 as well.
As you can see in the pictures, there was a quite lot of wreckage extracted.

As mentioned it was then exhibited and later sold to a dealer.
The propeller went elsewhere..dont know where, but the rest
I purchased these along with the data plates back in 2005.

The hope is to use as much original material as possible to reconstruct the cockpit area from Fr5 back to about Fr 13.
I could do more beyond Fr 13 or 14 but it would nearly all have to be new fabricated. Plus it starts to get a bit big for the workshop ! I will probably take the end of the top longerons as a good ‘cut off’ point for the time being.

I have attached a couple of photos of a recent ‘hang up’ of some of the frame sections intended for the rebuild. There is also alot more stuff, but much of it needs heating and straightening before it can be put in place.
I will try to keep the web site upto date as we slowly proceed.

I hope you find this of interest.
regards
Jon

Incidentally,
I am trying to find out as much as I can on the history of a relative, P/O (later SqLdr Walter John Lawson)
He was based with 19 sq Fowlmere, I think either 1939 or 40 onward.
He had some success in combat, shooting down 6 aircraft, and was reported MIA 28 aug 1941 after a circus over Rotterdam. He flew Mk 1 & 11 spitfires, call sign QV-K QV-J and I think QV-I.
I have a photo (although rather small) of him flying in QV-J.

Prior to this I am aware that he flew X4170 a few days before P/O Oxspring and made a succesful forced landing at Eastchurch.

I am aware that he was present at the Duxford press day 4 May 1939, as I have a still photo taken of him with George Unwin ,Brian Lane, and Bernad Jennings but can find nothing more.

Although I recall seeing a clip on TV once I havent been able to find any links to the Press day footage, does it exist anywhere ?

Any further info would be most helpful.

John,

No – the prints came first and I saw little mileage in pursuing the c/n issue. I had put them, like the photos I post here, in the public domain, in this case the Warbirds Directory, for others to enjoy, not for others to ‘rip en masse’ for commercial gain.

The survivors listing had several fundamental errors which the the most basic of checks would have highlighted. Some do first hand research – some do not. That is life.

Mark

Mark,

I take it you pointed out to them the error of their ways but they still sent you the piccies emblazoned with their copyright malarky all over it.

Hmm, double standards indeed

John,

What p*ssed me off was not so much the lack of acknowledgement but the double standard on copyright.

Mark

Mark,

Thanks for clearing that up for me

So another one to watch that’s currently on the periphery

I would go along with you that as long as its all done visibly and there is no attempt at passing a project off as something it definitely isn’t then I can’t see any problems

Hmm, that’s a pretty bad show about the construction numbers, a small acknowledgement would not have hurt surely 😡 😡

Thanks again though Mark 😀