"The Few" Movie and other new air movies

Hi

Peter L

This is where I commit Forum suicide and suggest that perhaps it doesn’t matter if the Spits/Hurricanes are sans Cannons or not – the average punter wouldn’t notice………If only 1% of the audience knows anything about aircraft then why does it matter a toss if the aircraft has cannons or not

I absolutely agree John. As I maintained, Joe Public would accept the cgi aircraft in Correlli’s Mandolin as real, so well was it done, and probably wouldn’t know a Ju87 from a Lambretta. The producers made a concious decision to get it right, and succeeded IMO.

Very often it is no more difficult to do a thing right than it is to do it wrong, and in cgi terms this is self evident. Sometimes it’s actually easier to get it right than to get it wrong, and if it can be done right it should be IMO. Anoraks like me will enjoy it all the more and Joe public will enjoy it no less. Result = a larger audience.

Over the years we have had movies about ‘how we won the war single handed’ from both the American side and the British. but very few taken if any taken from the view of the Axis powers, Tora, Tora, Tora and Bridge at Remagen come to mind but they used both sides perspective. If we are going to do a ‘remake’ of Battle of Britain, or any war movie, why not make it from the perspective of the Germans telling of their frustration of not being able to crack the allied defences whilst suffering because of politically bad decisions on their side of the fence. you never know it may resurrect some exitinct German aircraft like the Stuka, Ju88, Do17, Me110 or He111.

How about Das Boot or the Cross of Iron, both done from the Axis perspective ????

On Togun Reject’s topic… I watched a film a few weeks ago called The Mackenzie Break about a british POW camp for German prisoners who were planning an escape. I found that quite novel as there are so many the other way round. It featured som nice flying shots from some sort of Percival or Miles thingy too.

Because your biggest viewers will be the Americans, and Hollywood wouldn’t really want a movie about “the other side”, I guess.

Look at the likes of Enemy At The Gates – didn’t set the box office on fire, despite the fact that it had big names in it. Might have done pretty well in Europe, but not in the States.

Over the years we have had movies about ‘how we won the war single handed’ from both the American side and the British. but very few taken if any taken from the view of the Axis powers, Tora, Tora, Tora and Bridge at Remagen come to mind but they used both sides perspective. If we are going to do a ‘remake’ of Battle of Britain, or any war movie, why not make it from the perspective of the Germans telling of their frustration of not being able to crack the allied defences whilst suffering because of politically bad decisions on their side of the fence. you never know it may resurrect some exitinct German aircraft like the Stuka, Ju88, Do17, Me110 or He111.

Hi

Peter L

This is where I commit Forum suicide and suggest that perhaps it doesn’t matter if the Spits/Hurricanes are sans Cannons or not – the average punter wouldn’t notice. In some versions of the modern Italian job one of the coopers has an air scoop bonnet and in the next scene it doesn’t – did you notice – I didn’t till my Cooper mad wife told me !! If only 1% of the audience knows anything about aircraft then why does it matter a toss if the aircraft has cannons or not. I would be far more worried about where they would get the opposition this time – Norwegian lakes perhaps ? And it would be nice if the story was even vaguely truthful

Just my thoughts

Regards
John P

Having just listened to the radio production of Len Deighton’s ‘Bomber’ I can’t help but wonder why it hasn’t been made into a film, though perhaps there is a little too much to cram into 90 mins – A BBC mini-series perhaps?

A film about the Nuremburg raid (94 RAF bombers lost) would be my choice, from the viewpoint of a RAF crew and a Luftwaffe night fighter pilot.One things for sure,as CGI gets even better we should be in for some treats in the future, as long as the script writers stick to the facts.

Peter Jackson has been associated some time with an upcoming WWI film. I’m unsure if it’s purely supposition, desire on his part, or a real intention. I have heard rumours that it’ll involve aviation and this makes sense given his collection and passion for WWI planes. However I’ve also heard several sources say he plans a film about the NZ’ers in WWI. I don’t know if this is meant to be the same film. I know his company has recently restored genuine WWI ANZAC film for the nation.

With the WWI project/s and the Russian film, things are certainly going to be interesting if they happen. Of course he’s already committed to making The Lovely Bones in 2007. So if the Russian one is slotted for 2006 then it’ll be a while before the WWI epic arrives I’d think.

He’s still fighting in court to get his share of the $3 billion New Line has made from the Rings films – absolute rotters after all he did to make them that money!

There was an attempt by mel gibson to remake the dambusters about 10 years ago using CGI for the lancs there was an article i think in ‘the sun’ about it at the time and they said it would be a computer generated farce as the story would no doubt be another ‘how the americans won the war single handed’ film etc.

Mel Gibson certainly has previous convictions. My bet is that the 617BG would fly over in B25’s to drop relief supplies to belegured Germans, trapped by rising floodwaters caused by evil criminal mastermind Dr Bounce Wallis’s attempt to corner the world market in black labradors.

On the question of the removal of cannon, surely that’s where cgi is best. The cannon can be digitally removed without need to modify the aircraft.

My nomination for best use of 100 percent cgi aircraft in a movie goes to the Stuka attack in Captain Correli’s Mandolin. The aircraft were shown only in brief glimpses. If I didn’t know there are no flying examples of Ju87 I might have been convinced, as I am sure Joe Public was

Peter Jackson at some time has promised to do a WW1 aviation film…an easy project for him since he owns many ww1 planes! That would be worth a look.

M

There are very strong rumors out there that PJ is planning a WW1 film, it is however also rumored that it will be a remake of an old classic such as “Blue Max” or “Hells Angells”. Not so much due to a lack of new idea’s but a lack of investors willing to put money up for unknown and higer risk projects. It will be intersting to see how “Flyboys” does at the box office, you have to remember that the money men will catter for the 99% of the general film going public and not the 1% of aviation enthusiasts!

Peter Jackson at some time has promised to do a WW1 aviation film…an easy project for him since he owns many ww1 planes! That would be worth a look.

M

Hi dave

well yes there was an extensive article in the Christchurch newspaper about the Peter Jackson film on the Russian Women Fighter pilots. From memory it went into great detail about the aircraft and stars , saying it was to be made in and around Wanaka. Judy Dench and Kate Blanchet were mentioned as actors and it was to be under way by next year or so I thought- I think I kept the article – I will see if it can be found.

After that an investigation was done into the aircraft available and with the in house Polikarpovs, Hurricane, P40s , Catalina, Yaks and La9 I would have thought the whole thing would have been a relatively “doable” movie – especially with Peter jackson – who is as capable as any in the industry – involved.

A script has made it through the funding processes here in Aus based upon the RAAF defence of New Guinea featuring Wirraway and P40 Squadrons – it is apparently awaiting the development of the business plan and project work up before it is put forward for production. Doesn’t mean it will happen but it is 90% through the task so far.

Regards
John P

Remaking old TV series or old films highlights not a lack of ideas in the film world, just a lack of financiers willing to fund something new when they know they can cash in on a ‘known brand’, no matter how much they desicrate the original.

On the other hand, if the original film was based upon a classic book or a true story, I can’t see any reason not to remake it if it is done well and is guaranteed to better the original. By that I mean better technology, maybe the addition of colour, much better acting (which lets face it, acting techniques for film and TV has come on in leaps and bounds since the 1960’s, especially British acting in films, much more natural). Also directorial input can be better than an original in many cases, there are so many new ideas these days in just the framing of film the evokes emotion in the audience better than the old static camera.

I see no problem with the use of cgi if it is done well. One remake soon to be released in December might be interesting from an aviation perspective – King Kong. Like the original, almost the entire film is being made within the confines of a studio, but unlike the original – which apparently remains a classic – cgi is extending the reality far beyond the plastercine monkey doll with a German helmet ever did. And, like Setter said, such remakes can resurrect extinct aircraft as this film is doing – I have seen some scenes involving the previously extinct aircraft (whatever it is) being used in King Kong. It is a full sized replica which will be balanced with a little cgi. It looks very real however, stunningly real in the scenes I have witnessed, due to care and planning and use of lighting and good cgi on the blue screen, etc.

It is not the inclusion of cgi that can hamper a film, it is how it is used. Some directors can do it very well, others can’t. The director of Pearl Harbor is a chump and well known for bad films. He did it wrong (thru and thru with that film) but though I have not seen The Aviator but I have not heard any complaints about the cgi aircraft in it. See, good director, good film.

Frankly, I don’t want to see a straight remake of Battle of Britain, or The Dambusters, or the Flying Tigers, or any of those classics – whether they’re good or bad. Retelling of a story already told well is pointless. I’d much rather see other true stories told that have never made it to film, perhaps even those that have not made it into print. There is so much scope in the world of aviation films, but many cinema going people must think the only thing Bomber Command did was bomb some dams.

I’d rather see a new film, maybe about the Allied aerial defence and defeat at Singapore, or a decent film (as few are) about the Pacific campaign (although Spielberg and Clint Eastwood are currently trying to fill that gap), or a film following a Bomber Command crew, etc.

Now, as for supposed upcoming projects, what’s happening with the film announced at last year’s Warbirds Over Wanaka? It is an innovative (for film) true story about Russian woman fighter pilots in WWII. Has anyone heard more on this project? Anyone know the working title? Director? The only thing announced then was the Brietling fighter team were to regroup for the flying and I’ve heard it is to be made in NZ.

Having just listened to the radio production of Len Deighton’s ‘Bomber’ I can’t help but wonder why it hasn’t been made into a film, though perhaps there is a little too much to cram into 90 mins – A BBC mini-series perhaps?

Nah not do a remake of the classic, that will never be beaten. I was thinking along the lines of a film featuring the battle of britain, i.e. one following a fighter pilots life. Although my choice would be a ‘what if?’ film of Germany invading England in 1940, would be very interesting, i reckon we’d win 😀

Interesting to read of the Lucas/Tuskegee project yet again…This one has been making the rounds on and off since about 1988, when there was a press conference involving Lucas and (I think) the screenwriter who was working on the story for the film at the time. The film was to be called simply “Red Tails”. It seems never to have gone beyond the preproduction stage. I recall there was mention of use of CGI for some of the flying (in the late 80s…yikes) and I wouldn’t be surprised if Lucas were sitting on the idea until the CGI technology caught up with his vision for the film…viz the CGI Jabba sequence (and others) in the 1997 re-release of “Star Wars” that had not been in the original 1977 release because Lucas was ahead of the state of the art in what he wanted to do. Could be the same thing with this. Lucas is a military history and flying enthusiast (you can’t miss the “air combat” style scenes, cribbed holus-bolus from classic war films, in the 1977 “Star Wars”…the attack on the Death Star is copped in considerable detail from “The Dam Busters”), and he did wait a couple decades to finish his three “Star Wars” prequels…so we’ll have to wait and see whether “Red Tails” someday does appear. Anyone seen anything concrete recently on it?

In the interim, of course, there HAS been a film completed on that subject, the not-too-bad 1995 HBO cable-TV movie “The Tuskegee Airmen”. But there are just enough glitches in that production to make me wish Lucas would, indeed, make his version…with only the most judicious use of CGI…

S.

I reckon you could make a Battle of Britain film pretty well, theres enough Hurricanes out there and Spitfires you could quickly convert to look like mk I’s or II’s like in battle of britain, the cgi would be amazing.

Or you could use CGI for all of the footage, apart from a lone survivor or maybe a fibreglass model for close-up shots. And 99% of the paying public wouldn’t give a **** 😡 Leave that old classic as it is please!!!

T J

Yep, G-HURI.

TFC’s Hurricane? I’m not sure, but I don’t think removing cannons is a simple case of removing barrels and blanking them off. The Hurricane would still have big stubs sticking out of the leading edge.

Mark12 is your Spit cannon man, here 😉

Thought there was another Hurricane at Duxford, recently returned from the Merlins over Malta, or is that the one included? If so, what about the four 20mm cannon one at Duxford?

I reckon you could make a Battle of Britain film pretty well, theres enough Hurricanes out there and Spitfires you could quickly convert to look like mk I’s or II’s like in battle of britain, the cgi would be amazing.

Ummm… I’m not exactly sure many people would allow a film crew to chop the cannons off their Spits!

Spit VB EP120 and VIIIc MV154/MT928 had their cannons removed as much as possible for the filming of Dark Blue World. If you look closely the stubs of the cannon are still visible.

Only two “clean” wing Spits might be available for a Battle of Britain movie: MkIa AR213 and PRXI PL965.

Hurricanes (in the UK): Z7015, G-HURR, G-HURI, R4118. Any others?