The Iran Situation – Russia & China

Given recent developments I think you will see US-Pakistani relations only get worse over time.

Relations weren’t as good after the nuclear stuff in the 90’s, but after 9/11, the Pakistani government was seemingly a helpful ally in the war against the Taliban, so in short I think the “support” of the Pakistani government by the US government was due to their apparent help early on in Afghanistan.

Over time however, it has become more and more obvious that there are many elements in the Pakistani government not friendly towards the US or supportive of Western goals in Afghanistan. The Bin Laden thing highlighted something I had suspected for several years…the Pakistanis aren’t the ally that many had thought. Personally I don’t think this notion should surprise anyone, and I would assume that many people knew this to be the case years ago…

As for nuclear weapons, I can’t speak for how/why Pakistan has them. I do believe as untrustworthy as they have been as of late that they do possess a far more stable government than does Iran. Also to my knowledge, they haven’t made the outlandish threats and claims about subjects such as Israel. Iran’s government is dangerous, and it’s only a matter of time before something unfortunate happens if they get their hands on a nuclear device…

These are just my personal thoughts and certainly not representative of my government necessarily.

Why does Russia stand behind a regime that has killed 8,000+ of its own people? Before anyone says it, NO I’m not advocating military action against Syria. I’m just confused as to how the Russian government can take the side of the Syrian government….

Phantom, two questions for you!

Why do US govt back Pakistan regime?
Why cant Iran have nukes, if Pakistan can have nukes?

My nationality: Indian, I only represent myself.

IMO, the explanation of the Russians, and to a lesser extent, the Chinese attitudes to Syria are two fold, however they are both inextricably linked.

1. Military. The Russians have only recently put the final touches, to a significant upgrading of their already substantial naval base on the Syrian coast at Tartous. If the events in Syria eventually result in a change of government that is more predisposed to the west, its highly likely that the Russians would lose this installation, and thereby its only permanent military base in the whole of the Med. IMO this would reduce dramatically Russia’s influence in the region.

2. Economic. The Russians sell a very substantial amount of arms, heavy machinery, and other miscellaneous products to Syria. The military aspect goes right back to the times of Bashar’s father, Havez Al Assad. During the cold war era, Syria was an integral part of the Soviet foreign policy and its ideological/military strategy for the Eastern Mediterranean and Middle East. It should also be borne in mind, that the Syrian Al Baath party has its roots in it own interpretation of Soviet style socialism, thus making it a natural ally for the Soviets, and this has continued with the Russian Federation. Despite the political and ideological collapse of the USSR, bilateral relations between Russia and Syria have largely remained unaffected. The stakes for Russia in this current situation, are very high indeed, they know it, and so does the West.

Thanks for the comments folks. I take. I take no offense to anyone’s opinion. We all look at things in a different light.

You make valid points regarding the motives of different governments, and I’m certainly not naive enough to think that political motives aren’t what drives many of the decisions made by my own government.

With all of that said, I am bothered by Russia and China’s actions or lack thereof. I could be very wrong, but I honestly think that the main motivation they both have is that of undermining what the West is trying to do. I fail to see how Iran gaining a nuclear capability is a benefit to either Russia or China.

The Syria situation could be added into the mix as well. Why does Russia stand behind a regime that has killed 8,000+ of its own people? Before anyone says it, NO I’m not advocating military action against Syria. I’m just confused as to how the Russian government can take the side of the Syrian government….

[QUOTE=PhantomII;1865452]So it’s no secret that Russia & China have stayed pretty consistent with their different approach to the Iran situation as compared to the EU and the US.

On the face of things, especially in China’s case, they claim it is all economically based. My questions to fellow forum members are twofold:

1. Do you believe what they say or do you think they have other unspoken motives?
>>>>>>>>All politicians lie, end of. The only economical reasoning here is that Russia is broke and Chine is building it’s war machine ready for Taiwan and Japan.

2. Do you agree with their apparent lack of action in this situation compared to Western countries? (Just out of curiosity please state what country you are from when you reply. I’m just curious to get an idea of what opinions of people from a variety of countries are.)

>>>>>>>>I never agreee with a lack of action in that part of the World. At minimum we should support Israel every time she has to retaliate.

EDIT:

3. Do you personally believe the Iranians are trying to develop a nuclear weapons capability?
>>>>>>>>>>>100% certain. But, thankfully we have enough intel. to know at what stage they are at.

British English. In England and Europe 50/50%

QUOTE]

In the text.

Phantom, I hope you won’t be offended, I love the American people, I have both relatives and good American friends in Tuscaloosa Al, but I’ve no time for your politicians or the policies that they pursue. There, I’ve come clean.

As for the antics of Russia and China, I think that their aims are basically the same as each other, self interest, as indeed are those of the US govt. Back in the days of the cold war, IMO, things regarding these two countries were a little different, in that most of their foreign policies were based on two major premises.

1) Inate hostility to the US and the west in general, and indeed towards one another at times.

2) A lot of their foreign policy decisions in the past, had more to do with ideology, and their ceaseless pursuit of the ideal of the ‘Socialist Utopia’ than economics, I should know, I used to be a card carrying communist in my misspent youth. Today, these decisions seem to be dictated more by economic objectives than ideology, although I think that there is still a very real political divide between these two states and the west, particularly with China. Wether the US likes it or not, and I suspect it doesn’t, it’s going to have to share centre stage with the rising giant that is China.

3) IMO, Iran may not have have started out with the aim of developing an atomic weapon, and it may well turn out to be that they were driven into it by the foreign policies of other countries towards it, a cornered rat will eventually jump. I find all this current ‘sabre rattling’ by the west and Israel and Iran very disturbing. The price of releasing the ‘dogs of war’ could be truly horrifying. Iraq was a cake walk. Iran is a whole different scenario, and I think that the great unknown factors will be, strangely enough, what positions will be taken by our old friends Russia and China. Isn’t there an old Chinese proverb containing the phrase ‘May you always live in interesting times’ or something similar, and I think that indeed we do. Well, that’s my two penneth. Thanks for lookin.

Thanks Kev and Swoosh for the replies.

Kev, I suppose you have a point regarding the lack of responses.

The cynical side of me says that many posters here would disagree with my personal opinion of what Iran is doing. I base this opinion solely on having been here for a number of years giving me exposure to quite a few different people from all over the world…albeit in a limited capacity. This is one of the driving reasons I wanted people to state their nationality. Unfortunately this request seems to have angered at least one person so I guess it was an inappropriate question to ask…

The other side of me says that not enough people care to comment on the matter. It appears I was quite incorrect in my assumption that it would generate a lot of discussion. Perhaps as time goes on, more people will come along with their thoughts.

I’m back, didn’t have internet for a few days 🙂 . Coming back to Phantom’s question: I’m English but let’s just say that I’ve moved a lot so my perspective on issues like Iran might be a bt different

I don’t think Iran actually has realistic nuclear capabilities at the moment. That said, it’s a country run by a bunch of dangerous psychopaths so, yes, they are a significant threat to world peace. If they were located in the middle of nowhere, like North Korea for instance, I would be ok with all the craziness. Sadly, their location puts them in the middle of the most difficult region of the world. I’m not saying that a war is necessary, but something has to be done. And honestly, if I’m going to trust someone to do something about thi predicament, it will be Obama.

Yes, I guess my disillusionment with David C ,as well as British and European politics in general, makes me a bit pro-American on the matter.

Cooper.

Everything is done either to promote or protect our own Countries “politicians “self interest,

you call my english when you miss complete words out !!!:D

Cooper.

Yes, America may get a bit of a bashing here in the UK, but our own successive Governments don’t fare much better in the opinions of the General Public. Don’t get the idea that either your Government or mine does things for altruistic motives. There is always an angle. Everything is done either to promote or protect our own Countries self interest, or to stir up antagonism between two other parties.

As for the lack of participation in the thread I can only speak for myself and my perceptions of the reasons why. And my guess is that at the moment we all have other things on our minds. Spiralling costs, dwindling wages, withdrawal of services and resource are all making us a little more introspective than we would be otherwise.

Perhaps it’s a shame our Governments aren’t as self absorbed as I suspect most of their populations to be.

Regards,

kev35

Lol…relax my angry little friend. I was making a joke. I’m not sure why you are under the opinion I think I’m entitled to anything. It’s called sarcasm…go look it up and relax. 🙂

i didn’t log on for a few days and you take it personally. why do you blow up at everything? stop thinking you’re entitled to getting responses you want to hear. people give it when they can or want to.

You know for all the faults of my nation, it’s still worth pointing out that we donate a huge amount of money in foreign aid to nations all over the globe…

This comes money comes from the U.S. Government as well as individuals through organizations like the International Red Cross.

Not that it matters to you lot, but I’m rather offended by the manner in which my nation is often referred to here.

We’re not perfect, but who is?

Also would you all suggest that we delete this thread? I rather figured it would get a lot of responses, but I appear to be sorely mistaken. J-20..who is quick to make a post on just about anything won’t even answer a question I flat out asked him…if he doesn’t respond then most of the rest of the forum certainly won’t….

I can eat crow and chalk this up as a loss if the mods so deem it…never hurts to try and generate discussion. (For the record, yes I saw the thread on the avaition page, but I was targeting a different discussion with this forum hence why I made the new thread.)

Tornado 64. I don’t think it’s the people of the U.K. that are disliked, it’s our Polititions who try and run every other Country, and can’t keep their noses out thats the trouble.When Brussells send out another new dictat, France and Co, give them the bird:eek: whilst we blindly follow, I mean, just think of some of the idiotic things they have made us do.
Jim.
Lincoln ..7

there’s not many more like the UK either jim !!

[QUOTE=paul178;1868821]Jim we are the USA’s bestest ever friends and we are in their gang so we must beat up the little kids when we are told!

Errrrrrrrr, Paul, I think WE are the U.S.As ONLY friends,:rolleyes: you don’t see many other Countries rushing to their aid when they need it.
Jim.

Lincoln .7

I’m a little skepticle with the view that Iran poses us any threat, or indeed wants to threaten us.
Could all be propagander on our part.
Let them have Nuclear weapons if that’s the way they want it but at least try and be friendly to them.
What do they intend to do with the Nukes anyway?
Threaten us? We have more combined than they do.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY PAUL;)

Jim.
Lincoln .7

Jim we are the USA’s bestest ever friends and we are in their gang so we must beat up the little kids when we are told!

BTW yes it is my Birthday today!

TBH I don’t give a monkeys what they are doing, I just hope that WTSHTF, we don’t get dragged into yet another conflict. Until it affects US, then let them get on with it.
But thats just my opinion.:)
Jim.

Lincoln .7