U.S.A Second Amendment re-think

Not at all disturbing that potentially some day any criminal or loony will be able to make their own firearm and bypass the already farcical checks on whether they are responsible enough to own one?

Any semi-competent machinist could make a gun without too much bother. I made a brass cannon in metalshop at school (in the UK) that fired snooker balls…

You talk of your Government being part of the problem. As a democratically elected body, surely the voting population had the opportunity to ensure Obama came second. Yet still he won and gained a second term. Or are you suggesting that democracy is not quite the type of Governance America now requires?

Obumble was elected with about 64M votes, the First Loser came 2nd with about 62M….. About 90Million other eligible American voters couldn’t be bothered to get off their collective fat ass & vote.

Well as I said the anti-gang unit was effective and put a serious crimp in their actions in Minneapolis but now Minneapolis is the national center for criminal action against Somali gangs for both prostitution and connections to terrorists overseas.
They also cam here because of the excellent welfare.
Minn. has highest Somali population of any state, despite we have the lowest average temp. of any State South of Alaska.

To be fair to a point, Madison, Wisc. was known among persons who are familiar with the hoods of Chicago as a little Chicago in many ways, it was not till Wisconsin cut off the welfare payroll that they bypassed Madison for Minneapolis and Minnesota’s much better welfare.
It is due to the fact that one of my siblings lives in Madison that I became aware of just how dark the unpublished societies of many cities with populations of less than a million people really are.
As I said, you could tell the “white” folk about this all day long and the bigots would say–“just as I thought”, while the liberals would say ” It cannot be that bad, they just need better welfare.”
The majority simply would not give a damn either way.

My one sibling now works for the Salvation Army, first full time job since the sixties, even though that one has been around pimps and armed felons for decades, that one now says society is going to hell.

Your not painting a very rosy picture of Minneapolis!

RpR.

Sorry for the delay in replying, but seeing as I spent most of yesterday alternatively trying to breathe or clutching my chest, perhaps you’ll forgive my tardiness.

I can’t find figures for ‘goblin versus goblin killings’ either in the US or the UK. By the way, what a quaint way to describe something so horrible, not, of course, that there is any attempt to trivialise such incidents. So if I’m reading you correctly, the influx of armed illegal immigrants from across your Southern border is responsible for much of the gun crime in America? How can anyone say that, after all, the NRA banned any Governmental research into the phenomenon. And if these immigrants are beheading people then at least it’s not adding to the gun crime figures is it? I’m afraid I didn’t quite follow the bit about drug lords etc. Could you expand on that a bit further please?

You talk of your Government being part of the problem. As a democratically elected body, surely the voting population had the opportunity to ensure Obama came second. Yet still he won and gained a second term. Or are you suggesting that democracy is not quite the type of Governance America now requires?

kev35

The War on Drugs is working in a similar manner that prohibition did in the thirties, i.e. gangster killing ganster, drug dealer killing drug dealer.

In Minnesota some years back, Minneapolis had a murder rate that was higher than Chicago. The vast majority were criminal killing criminal.
In abstract and you would have to live here to understand fully how this was working and different from anything before, many of the dead had a last known address of Chicago, Ill.
Where I am at now, a town of less than fifty thousand people at the time, murders were also taking place and last known addresses were mostly Chicago, Ill.
Twenty years before this happened a former Chicago gang leader, had come here and told the City council that what was going on in Chicago was headed to Minn. be ready for it.
He was practically laughed out of town.

In a case of genuine reporting the local newspaper had old timers who remember his coming looked up what they had recorded and wrote an article in the paper saying we were getting just rewards for ignorance and arrogance.

(The special criminal unit that shut down this particular murder spree by cracking down on gang and drug crime, some leaders were prosecuted for doctoring the books to fund their unit as when a Democrat became mayor, he was not stupid enough to appear weak on crime and shut down the unit, he just stopped funding them. Their battle had been very effective and technically if they did not perform at the level they had they would have been let go. Well eventually they could not doctor the books enough to not work for free and the unit was shut down, but —{they were not stealing tax payer’s money they were using the money confiscated from drug criminals to pay for the expenses to operate. }

Of course the good liberal politicians that were and are running Minneapolis used the police officers and examples of cops gone bad when they were really expected to do a job and pay for it themselves while the money they used to get was used to fund welfare for the ever increasing population whose last known addresses were Chicago, Ill.

[on a side, side note; My mother lived in a town sixty miles from Minneapolis and a young lady moved into a house across the street.
She came over once when I was there and asked if it was normal for the Police to bother people.
I asked how long she had lived there and why she was being bothered.
She said it had something to do with too much traffic in and out of her house.
I asked if she was behind on rent or house payment, and she was honest enough to say yes as she had lost her job and was trying to find a new one.
Well I said, it could be because the area–this was an area of a circle approx. one hundred miles in diameter with Minneapolis as the center– was having trouble with gang members from Chicago leaving Chicago and moving into this area.
Well, the conversation was polite, and she finally said she had moved there from Chicago.
She left within a matter of months.])

Now this is just an abstract of what happened a thousand plus miles from the border but due to a former Latino gang member I worked with who had in his past had connection with gangs in the triangle from Puerto Rico to the the West Coast to Chicago I learned that while Latin on Black hatred exceeded anything “white” (as white is most often used) society would believe much less understand but in the Latino community, if you were from the wrong Latino origin , you were THE ENEMY and the movie where manhood is attained by killing an opposing gang member was FACT, not movie fiction.
Down on the border the violence is even greater.

As I said this is an abstract of an abstract, and had I not had the misfortune fortune to become acquainted with some dealing in this atmosphere for reasons not chosen, I would be as ignorant as the average “white” small town boy.

As an aside, during ganster years there was a criminal triangle from Chicago to St. Louis to Minneapolis.
Que sera, sera.

I’m afraid I couldn’t show it Charlie, it is an upright after all.

Regards,

kev35

:highly_amused:

No it is not disturbing at all.
Freedom is what hundreds of thousands of U.S. citizens have died for.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

Not at all disturbing that potentially some day any criminal or loony will be able to make their own firearm and bypass the already farcical checks on whether they are responsible enough to own one? IMHO these arguments re the 2nd Amendment and “Freedom” are way overused as an excuse for selfish people to demand whatever they want. If it’s a matter of fundamental “Freedom” that anyone can have the means to kill another person, then how far would you take that argument? How about, for example, driving regulations? Someone could argue “I’m a great driver, so the Govt has no right to take away my freedom to drive as fast as I want, or try to stop me when I’m out of my head on drink or drugs? I should be free to do what I want in my own car.” In a modern, mature liberaql democracy you can not demand “Freedom” without also accepting the flip-side, ie responsibilty towards others. And if we are talking about “Freedom” what about the freedom of 5 year old kids not to be massacred in school?

I’m afraid I couldn’t show it Charlie, it is an upright after all.

Regards,

kev35

Can’t wait to see the video of THAT!!;)

Believe me chaps it didn’t feel any too good either. Much better day yesterday and today isn’t doing too bad yet either. It’s all just natures way of telling me to stop being an a**e. As a little gentle exercise is said to be good for me I shall now go and dance through the downstairs rooms with the vacuum cleaner. Now, where did I put those instructions?

Regards,

kev35

Seconded. It didn’t sound good, especially as you are a comparative youngster, Kev. Please reassure us…..:)

RpR.

Sorry for the delay in replying, but seeing as I spent most of yesterday alternatively trying to breathe or clutching my chest, perhaps you’ll forgive my tardiness

kev35

Kev. Hope it’s nothing serious, We can’t have the “Grand dad” of the Forum popping his clogs for a long time yet.:)
Jim.
Lincoln .7

RpR.

Sorry for the delay in replying, but seeing as I spent most of yesterday alternatively trying to breathe or clutching my chest, perhaps you’ll forgive my tardiness.

I can’t find figures for ‘goblin versus goblin killings’ either in the US or the UK. By the way, what a quaint way to describe something so horrible, not, of course, that there is any attempt to trivialise such incidents. So if I’m reading you correctly, the influx of armed illegal immigrants from across your Southern border is responsible for much of the gun crime in America? How can anyone say that, after all, the NRA banned any Governmental research into the phenomenon. And if these immigrants are beheading people then at least it’s not adding to the gun crime figures is it? I’m afraid I didn’t quite follow the bit about drug lords etc. Could you expand on that a bit further please?

You talk of your Government being part of the problem. As a democratically elected body, surely the voting population had the opportunity to ensure Obama came second. Yet still he won and gained a second term. Or are you suggesting that democracy is not quite the type of Governance America now requires?

Rick.

I’ve read figures showing both an increase and decrease in the legal ownership of firearms. I personally suspect it is increasing.

Jim.

My mention of muskets was in response to your comment about the rights of a five year old to own a firearm at the time of the inception of the 2nd. I don’t think there were many brightly coloured, child friendly firearms about then.

As to the entrepreneurial genius of the new 3D printed pistol, I’m with David Burke on that one.

Regards,

kev35

by making the information freely available who’s ‘freedom’ exactly are they ensuring???

With that I agree.

I wonder what the guys could achieve if they set their mind to something that would help mankind rather than engaging in making something that undoubtedly massages their ego’s ? There is no need for this product – by making the information freely available who’s ‘freedom’ exactly are they ensuring???

This is a bit disturbing. I think it also illustrates the skewed thinking of some sections of the gun community, in that Mr Wilson seems to be saying “Yes innocent people may get killed but that’s not so important as the rest of us being “Free”to do whatever we feel like.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22421185

No it is not disturbing at all.
Freedom is what hundreds of thousands of U.S. citizens have died for.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

Re 950, I never mentioned the word Musket Kev. They are your words, not mine.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

This is a bit disturbing. I think it also illustrates the skewed thinking of some sections of the gun community, in that Mr Wilson seems to be saying “Yes innocent people may get killed but that’s not so important as the rest of us being “Free”to do whatever we feel like.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22421185

Asked if he felt any sense of responsibility about whose hands the gun might fall into, he told the BBC: “I recognise the tool might be used to harm other people – that’s what the tool is – it’s a gun.”But I don’t think that’s a reason to not do it – or a reason not to put it out there

What percentage of murders in the U.K. were criminal killing criminal?
I am not going to look up the numbers, they are probably there is you so wish, but the majority in the U.S. are criminal killing criminal.

Of course England proper, unless you count Scotsmen, does not have a country right across its border where beheadings are the latest form of criminal intimidation or thousands illegally crossing the border, either way every month.
But then neither do you have a president who is blaming the gun industry, even though his administration put several hundred into criminals hands deliberately, for their problems, or blames U.S. civilians for the actions of drug lords in that country; i.e. he is actually saying U.S. citizens are responsible for those beheadings.
So you wonder why we do not think our government not only cannot fix the problem but probably is part of the problem.

I have spoken to police officers who resent having to spend time on goblin vs goblin killings but our legal system says they must be given at least some time.

Due to the actions of one of my siblings, I am well aware of the mind set of some felony criminals, and they, for them find, laws disarming a law abiding citizen are Halloween Candy.