U.S.A Second Amendment re-think

Oh please– your entire post is a simplistic job of trolling by using straw-man type rhetoric…

Well, if I am trolling I can’t be very good at it…

…it has taken me to page forty-two of this thread to be accused of it!

As for ‘straw-man rhetoric’ I don’t think the pro-gun lobby (if I can include you in this) should be accusing anybody else of making a straw-man argument…

…on this very thread we have heard arguments about the infringement of the Second Amendment, concerns about tyrannical government, and near hysteria about the purchase of armoured vehicles by the United States government so they can round-up gun-owners and intern them in all those (not so secret) secret Concentration Camps that are being built!

The straw-man argument that wanting to do something about shooting-sprees in schools is somehow going to infringe the rights of sportsmen deer-hunting is mild in comparison.

So here we are nearly a year on from the Sandy Hook school shootings; have the round-ups started yet? Are the Concentration Camps filled to bursting with disarmed gun-owners? Or has the on-going struggle of the Armed-Resistance overthrown the Tyrannical Regime?

Rick. I am surprised at what you have stated, re “More shootings in Church” Can you back up that statement?.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

…I wish the ‘pro-gun lobby’ would just have the balls to say that they like owning guns, for whatever reason, and that the odd school shooting-spree is the price they are willing to accept!

I like owning mine, keeps em out of the hands of criminals 🙂

As for school shootings, the right like to blame it on a lack of god in schools.. which is ironic given that there are about 4x as many shootings in churches…

I cannot believe I’ve been drawn back into this thread but, I’m sorry, that is a ridiculous argument…

…I wish the ‘pro-gun lobby’ would just have the balls to say that they like owning guns, for whatever reason, and that the odd school shooting-spree is the price they are willing to accept!

Oh please– your entire post is a simplistic job of trolling by using straw-man type rhetoric for which you, and snafu above yours, can answer with, yeah but–yeah but–yeah but– yeah but– simplistic rationalizations no matter what answer/s you are given.

Since guns have been effectively outlawed in the UK for many years…

…no wonder there is little sympathy for gun owners and sportsman’s rights.

I cannot believe I’ve been drawn back into this thread but, I’m sorry, that is a ridiculous argument.

Firstly, guns are not ‘outlawed’ in the United Kingdom; handguns are outlawed in the United Kingdom.

Secondly, if sportsmen in the United States want to go ‘big game’ hunting they can still do so without the need for a semi-automatic pistol or an assault-rifle.

I’m not anti-gun nor am I anti-United States, but really, I expected a better argument, or at least an argument at all, from those who are resistant to any sort of meaningful gun-control.

If the problem is people with legally-held handguns going on shooting-sprees in schools it makes little sense to start defending the rights of sportsmen deer-hunting through the Second Amendment.

It is all moot anyway; the United States has, seemingly, very little effective restriction to obtaining a gun either legally or illegally and certainly no effective way of governing or (God forbid!) confiscating any one of the hundreds-of-millions of guns now in circulation.

I will concede that there certainly are some benefits to large-scale gun ownership in the United States (I am sure you will be surprised to hear) but, rather than hiding behind the need for self-protection from savage, marauding predators with an AR-15 and a thirty-round magazine, or the right to go deer-hunting…

…I wish the ‘pro-gun lobby’ would just have the balls to say that they like owning guns, for whatever reason, and that the odd school shooting-spree is the price they are willing to accept!

You can’t get out of it that easily, Snafu. Do the job properly and read the whole lot – I did warn you….!!:highly_amused:

There are 42 pages of this stuff and I really can’t be bothered to go through it all at the moment…
Has there been any comparison between those gun holders north of the US border and those south of the Canadian border yet?
Always amused me that, despite having much the same cultural influences, there doesn’t appear to be the same enthusiasm in Canada for going out and gunning people – family, friends, work colleagues, schoolmates, strangers, etc – down like their southern counterparts.

(Waves the red rag about to entice the bulls…) And what about this bullocks about outlawing guns means only the criminals would have guns? How about the idea that allowing gun ownership would mean that only potential murderers have guns? ;o)

I see they are demolishing the school at Sandy Hook. but I don’t think that that will do any good. Look just how many shootingshave happend since the last reply on here.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

I see the septics are at it again. Surely all weapons could be checked in with the US Marines on the door?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24111481

You mean in “Gun-free” DC? How is this possible? Guns are banned there, probably owing to there being too many tempting targets.

Meanwhile the NYPD are doing their best to protect us from unarmed males by shooting 2 women who happened to be bystanders.. including one with a walking frame…. in the middle of Times Square… At least the idiots who shot & killed the crash victim in NC have been suspended & at least one has been charged.

I take it you mean todays rampage in a Washington Navy Facility?.
Jim

Lincoln .7

Jim, you (and others) see everything from a UK-centric perspective. Even the educated UK citizens really expect the rest of the world to be just like the UK (which is why you were so good in colonial times…and why eventually, you were kicked out of most colonies).

I really don’t think it advances your cause to try and reduce this to some US versus UK thing. For me, at least, it really isn’t like that, and if a US citizen were to criticise some particular aspect of UK culture (and heaven knows there is plenty worthy of criticism) I wouldn’t take it as being anti-British. What I don’t understand is why some sections of US society have this unhealthy love of firearms, with all the problems it brings (today’s incident being just the latest example)

I see the septics are at it again. Surely all weapons could be checked in with the US Marines on the door?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24111481

Thanks for clearing that up RpR, The way it was initialy put, I though it was anyone who was completely blind, now it makes sense.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Hi, Can you be more specific RpR, I thought if you were blind, you couldn’t see anything. And even if partialy blind, I don’t honestly think they should be allowed to own a gun of any sort.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Once one’s vision is impaired to a certain degree, such as with some who can still reading with special glasses, they are legally blind; which means that they may be eligible for some government benefits.

[QUOTE=J Boyle;2065430

Jim, you (and others) see everything from a UK-centric perspective. Even the educated UK citizens really expect the rest of the world to be just like the UK (which is why you were so good in colonial times…and why eventually, you were kicked out of most colonies).[/QUOTE]

We MAY have been kicked out John or we may just have left, but I notice the States still wants our help in bailing the States out in many a past conflict, when it suits them.:p
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Your last paragraph – indeed the British disease.

You can go hunting Deer and large Stags, in Scotland, and for a price, and even then, they try and take out the elder of these animals, not like the States where ANYTHING seems to be fair game, whatever the size and species.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

No, you missed the point.
Notice you said “for a price”. Here, there are many millions of acres of public land available for hunting…the only permit you need is a state hunting license…which is very affordable compared to the UK bounty landlords charge to hunting parties. That means, that “average” (as opposed to wealthy folks from the home counties driving their Range Rovers) can hunt…which means it’s more of an accepted pastime here.

Jim, you (and others) see everything from a UK-centric perspective. Even the educated UK citizens really expect the rest of the world to be just like the UK (which is why you were so good in colonial times…and why eventually, you were kicked out of most colonies).

But he’s talking about the general lack of sympathy or support for the sport due to the fact that there is a lack of game for most but the wealthy and restrictive gun control. And the hundreds of posts here support his last contention.

You missed the point. He’s talking about the principle. And he’s right.

I didn’t miss his point, it’s in the 2nd para.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

I dont think I missed the point, what Rights of the 2nd have been taken away?.from them. The NRA are making a good job of keeping every element of the 2nd alive at whatever cost.

Jim.
Lincoln .7