Volkswagen in trouble!

That would explain that then. Both vehicles would have been 06 or 07 plate.

DPF’s were introduced in around 2005 by VW/Audi on some vehicles, and as standard on all diesels a little bit later , 2008? when they became EURO5 compliant. Before that they would ‘smoke’ under hard acceleration.
It is the EURO5 vehicles that are subject to this problem, any VW before 08 is not in the frame as I understand it.

I wanted to add an additional comment.

One of the reasons for emissions checks is the statistic that x number of people die due to diesel produced particulate emissions.
I accept that as being accurate.
However alone this statistic is meaningless. Can we ascertain how many peoples lives are enriched, eased, helped by diesel engines and
how many people are now alive because of the internal combustion engine?
In other words life was a lot harder (physically so) and stressful without the car than with.

I used to own a VW Passat and an Audi A3.
Both of these, at certain times, would produce a lot of smoke under acceleration. Both these vehicles were less than 3 years old,
the Audi was brand new.
I now own a Mondeo diesel which produces no smoke.
Are Ford engines better?

Pedant mode engaged

The photos of belching jets and steam trains is amusing, but fundamentally inaccurate as NOx is invisible. Modern Diesels have particulate traps to remove visible soot so the vehicles in question would never smoke like that even if the ‘defeat switch’ was activated

Disengage pedant mode

But since the vast proportion of the public are engineering illiterates ( not this forum, obviously) images like these will reinforce VAG’s problem.
I speak as an owner of a vehicle with the engine in question, I’m just waiting to have a letter come through the door. I’m not going to hold my breath ( do you see what I did there?…)

Hi All,
hampden98,
Love the photo but like these better 1st is my favourite 2nd is for our friends across the pond……..:D

Geoff.

Presumably the affected vehicles can have the engine ECU reprogrammed to bring their emissions within the regulations

It’s a possibility.

How owners could be compelled to have it done is difficult to see, but it would almost certainly be a mandatory mod for any car entering the portals of a VAG franchise dealership. So I can see more regular trade going to VW independents.

If that’s the case then I can also see it being boom time for the remappers, undoing the dealer’s handiwork and putting in a sensible map.

I can strongly recommend Zensport in Braintree.

Moggy

For German speakers – “Versauen durch Technik”!!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]240749[/ATTACH]

This is going to be their biggest issue. Ridicule and public perception.
The shiny VW badge is now a little grubby.

If the VAG cars that are affected fail the emissions test will they be banned from the road or will there be an exemption…

Presumably the affected vehicles can have the engine ECU reprogrammed to bring their emissions within the regulations; quite what effect that will have on their performance and economy is open to question, possibly it will not be very great?

It would appear on a thread on porune that VW could be well and truly stuffed in Australia..

I found this comment on an Australian news website where the subject of the article was about VW’s “crisis management technique” designed to handle the damage and fallout from the news of the emissions cheating.

Quote:
“Application of consumer law will be very interesting in this case. If VW has published the lower emissions figures in a brochure distributed in Australia or on their .au website, then (as I understand it) a case can be made that the purchasing decision was made on incorrect information provided by the company – hence the sales contract is invalid and the purchaser has the right to return the goods for a full refund (not including stamp duty, rego etc). I believe it does not matter that the vehicle is a couple of years old and no longer worth what the purchaser paid for it. The basic fact is that if a seller lies to get a sale, then having to give a full refund when the lie is discovered, is the incentive not to commit fraud in the first place. This is in addition to any penalties the courts may impose. The fine print in a contract can work both ways.
I believe this comment is essentially correct, and under Australian Consumer Law, any consumer who bought a diesel VW in recent times has essentially been seriously misled, as regards VW diesel emission levels and fuel economy, and should be entitled to a full refund.
It has been reported that VW is removing all their diesel advertising videos from YouToob, and I would now guess a recall of VW diesel sales brochures and pamphlets will also be the order of the day.

http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/567933-volkswagen-pollution-monitor-defeat-device-8.html

I know about emission tests for petrol cars. Fortunately I drive a 4.0 ltr Lexus Soarer and a 2.2 Honda Prelude(4 wheel steer) both of 1991 and 92 Vintage They are my pride and joy and keep them in pristine condition. They are both exempt from this test but as a matter of fact they would both have passed with flying colours. They are both complex cars for the time and are both capable of showing a clean pair of heels to most new cars. my thought is why do Motor manufacturers have to keep tinkering with their products to produce even more complex cars that cost a fortune to repair with thing the average motorist does not even want or use? I laugh at the claims for economy as everybody I have ever spoken to cannot achieve the MPG the salesman claims. Lets face it cars today are throw away items after 10 years or less now. Seen many Jaguar xjs’s ,Vauxhall Senators, Saab 900’s or any early a series A class Mercs or an E class without rusty front wings recently? BMW e 38s are a few hundred quid for the drifting boys.

My point is a car is probably the second most expensive purchase after a house and you should expect that it is built to last especially if you spend 20k or more on it and not with biodegradability built in or massive prices from the main stealers to keep it on the road.

Sorry for the thread drift but what is a used diesel VW going to be worth now?

Just as an after thought . If the VAG cars that are affected fail the emissions test will they be banned from the road or will there be an exemption, if so if I roll up in my mates Shogun with slightly lower readings can he claim it as well?

Hidden away in the unassuming Nissan Micra is a little gem of a three cylinder, supercharged, 1.2 litre petrol engine, known as the DIG-S (Direct Injection Gasoline Supercharged)…

Who’d have thought a few years back that a Nissan Micra would have a supercharger!

I seriously think that this crisis will be the death-knell for diesel cars; they were already getting some pretty bad press due to particulate emissions before this.

OK, yes, sorry, I think we’re both on the same page. 🙂

Yes, agreed, but there isn’t anything inherently different about the combustion in a turbocharged petrol engine that makes it produce less CO2; the improvements, as you say, are due to smaller losses of power by virtue of it being a smaller engine.

Would cylinder deactivation be of any benefit in a diesel engine? Surely the fuel to each cylinder can be reduced to the point of zero anyway without bothering to hold any valves closed? On a petrol engine, yes, I can see the point of three cylinders running full-throttle rather than six at part-throttle, but a diesel isn’t ‘throttled’ in the same way so where would be the benefit?

I think you misunderstood my original comments on this. I was referring to the CO2 emitted per vehicle between a modern Turbo petrol and diesel are getting closer because of the use of smaller more efficient petrol motors.

I also was referring to petrol engine cylinder deactivation, to my knowlege it hasn’t been done with diesels as they effectively have no physical throttle as you say which is one of the reasons they still have the efficiency gain over petrols

Yes, agreed, but there isn’t anything inherently different about the combustion in a turbocharged petrol engine that makes it produce less CO2; the improvements, as you say, are due to smaller losses of power by virtue of it being a smaller engine.

Hidden away in the unassuming Nissan Micra is a little gem of a three cylinder, supercharged, 1.2 litre petrol engine, known as the DIG-S (Direct Injection Gasoline Supercharged)

The supercharger can be decoupled, a tweak that in combination with twin cam variable valve timing, allows the engine to run the more efficient Miller cycle at low revs without counterproductive interference from the supercharger, and a boosted Otto cycle at higher revs and when under load. Direct injection and 23 per cent less internal friction than a four cylinder of comparable capacity make it diesel economical, yet suitable for urban use, which modern diesels definitely aren’t.

Moggy

I can see this whole saga having very far-reaching effects indeed. If VW engineers have had to resort to this ‘fix’ to get the performance from their cars how have other manufacturers managed to compete while complying with the emissions regulations?

If the increased scrutiny of testing now implicates other manufacturers, manufacturers that are not as big as VW, will they survive the fines and lawsuits that will be levied against them? Although people have been happy with their cars for years who will resist the chance to jump onto the (Volkswagen) bandwagon (sorry!) of a ‘class action’ if there is a few quid in it for them?

There used to be a saying in the United States that ‘if the automobile industry sneezes, the economy catches a cold!’ I can see quite a few car manufacturers sneezing quite a bit over this; let us hope that not too many fragile European economies catch a cold over this! The United States automobile industry produces few diesel cars so I cannot see legislators having much sympathy when it comes to punitive fines for ‘non-domestic imports’!

…taking into account the lower friction and pumping losses in the smaller capacity engine so the savings are made when full power is not required…

Yes, agreed, but there isn’t anything inherently different about the combustion in a turbocharged petrol engine that makes it produce less CO2; the improvements, as you say, are due to smaller losses of power by virtue of it being a smaller engine.

Would cylinder deactivation be of any benefit in a diesel engine? Surely the fuel to each cylinder can be reduced to the point of zero anyway without bothering to hold any valves closed? On a petrol engine, yes, I can see the point of three cylinders running full-throttle rather than six at part-throttle, but a diesel isn’t ‘throttled’ in the same way so where would be the benefit?

If you are an asthmatic like me, you may also have concerns as NOx is a trigger.

I should imagine that any new diesel cars that have come onto the road during the last few years, are far cleaner than
those in the previous 10 or 20 years. Modification or not.

The bottom will only drop out of either new or used if the market is turned on its head. I cannot see that happening with the huge sums of money at stake, and if the consumers are, as Alan suggests, satisfied, then I would be surprised if this does not subside over the coming few weeks.