What would the world be like now ???

Picking up on that Kev, particularly your reference to 1st July 1916.

A huge part of the slaughter on that day and the following month was Kitchener’s Pals Battalions.

These were not brutal and licentious soldiery; these were patriotic volunteers drawn from every strata of society. For example my Uncle Frank who was killed at Guillemont on the 30th, having left an office job with the Liverpool Echo that he had gained by dint of a normal-for-the-day education at a local state school in Liverpool.

Hardly a ‘menial post’.

Another thought is what would now be the status of women in society if the emancipating shortage of men for everyday work roles had never happened?

Moggy

Ok.

Let’s forget the fact that your spelling and grammar are appalling. Let’s talk about arrogance. It is you who has resorted to calling me an ‘****.’ I’ve been called it before and I have no doubt I’ll be called it again. I too could tell a sob story about not having an education, or in my case having an education and not being prepared to take advantage of it, but that really is by the by. Your story is full of contradiction. You say you had no education but are educated now. Sadly, you seem unprepared to use it. I don’t know it all, as you suggest. I am only too happy to continue to be educated.

But let’s move on to your original post. It could have been an interesting question and have been a source of debate. I’ve been thinking about it quite a bit. But first, let’s think about the question. Would the world have been different (and in what ways) had World War I and II not been fought?

Some might suggest that the roots of the Second World War lay in the Treaty of Versailles. That would imply that had the Great War not been fought, the reasons for the Second would not have existed.

This comment of yours particularly interested me:

“the multicultural element of the uk would probably be a lot less , as we encouraged it to fill menial posts that would have been filled by lower education standards folks that were killed in the infantry ( a blunt way to say it but alas true !! )”

Is that really true? It was not only those of the working class or of a lower educational standard who were killed in the infantry. Think first of who led the infantry. I suspect that it was rare for a ranker to receive a battlefield commission until after the Somme in 1916. Prior to that, Officers almost exclusively came from middle, upper middle and upper class families. These young men were often public schoolboys or at the very least were grammar school educated. Without looking too deeply for figures, it might be worth considering how many Officers of the rank of Major and below died on the 1st of July 1916. A Battalion of 800 men with around 20 Officers. I think you will find that the number of Officer casualties, percentage wise, would be approaching that of the enlisted men, if not exceeding them.

But then we have to consider that the Officer class were the cream of the Country. The best educated. Whether they would have put that education to good use if there hadn’t been a war is an interesting thought and perhaps leads to answers to your other questions.

Let’s imagine that the Great War wasn’t fought. Peace and co-operation among Nations. It is not inconceivable that progress would have been made technologically at a comparable rate to that which has historically occurred. Among those headstones, from all Nations, that litter the Somme, Passchaendale and Gallipoli there must have been some brilliant minds so who knows what the future might have held. For them and for us.

And that brings us back again to the tragedy of unfulfilled potential.

It is an interesting question isn’t it?

Regards,

kev35

however i took myself back to college passing english in the top 2%

Just out of interest.

If this is true, why do you now choose to ignore the simplest rules of English grammar, particularly those relating to the use of capital letters and punctuation?

It would seem to be a case of studying something and then deciding you know better.

I have not noticed Kev ‘belittling’ you. He has merely pointed out a completely false premise in your original posting that you are now choosing not to address, or correct. Instead you launch into a diatribe about how well you have done to overcome a bad start in life.

Those efforts are laudable and I admire you for them as will most here. But that doesn’t entitle you to cover the internet with information that is of very dubious provenance in ill-written and badly presented English.

Moggy

Hang on. I’m just in the process of answering your original post after giving it some thought. Mods please don’t delete the thread. I think there could be some useful debate here.

Won’t be long.

kev35

(Noted by the moderator)

just because someone does not use it on the internet ‘ does not necessarily mean they are not educated !!

Tornado64, Kev really does know what he’s talking about on this particular subject so it may be an idea to pay attention to what he says rather than question him!

Paul

just because someone thinks they know all is no excuse for arrogance and bellitleing others

in education or educashun as some arses put it

some are less fortunate than others

my mother died when i was a child i got thrown about from pillar to post afterwards not recieving formal educashun !!

however i took myself back to college passing english in the top 2%

maths in the top 5% i also read and talk italian

i have worked on the eurofighter and tornado as well as the new rr trent 1000

even though i had a rough upbringing i was taught not to try to bellitle others that didn’t reach my own percieved ( not necessarily true ) standards

maybe others think they are clued up because they can tell others how fantastic thier educashun is

me i value people and observe thier information more if they have developed people skills educashun

something that is sadly lacking in our smart friend !!!

Tornado64. I must agree with Paul, Kev frequently puts some of us right when we fail to realise we were wrong. Thats what the forum is for, perchance for mistakes to be rectified that have been posted by somewon who knows it’s wrong, and corrects us.

We should be thankful that there are folks on the forum who can state the facts, “AS IS” I cannot see the point of arguments, it leads nowhere and creates a “Schoolground scenario”

So both give each other a kiss, make up, and get on with the job.
The ONLY person I know who is NEVER wrong, is….MY WIFE :diablo:

Lincoln. 7

Tornado64, Kev really does know what he’s talking about on this particular subject so it may be an idea to pay attention to what he says rather than question him!

Paul

Ooh better.

I will concede that. It wasn’t just my town. But I’m sure that you will agree that the deaths of 20 million Russians and six million Jews was NOT the reason your friend was made redundant, which is what you appear to have been suggesting, unless of course his Funeral Directors had a very wide catchment area.

Incidentally, civilian wartime deaths in the UK (for World War Two) were in the region of 60,0000. Military deaths were in the region of 380,000 out of a population of 47 million or so. Less than one per cent of the population. Now, if your friend was made redundant a few years ago, at least fifty years after the cessation of hostilities, then it strikes me his employer must have been stupid if he based his future projections on the burial of those who had died 50 or so years previously.
Regards,

kev35

total death toll ww2 60’000’000 of wich 40’000’000 were civillians 6’000’000 of those were in concentration camps

it was the world not just your villiage !!

Oh dear, a nerve exposed.

Whilst criticising your spelling etc., which does, incidentally, make your posts very difficult to follow, I can’t fail to notice that you have failed to respond to my response regarding the simple fact that the theory put forward by you which seems to suggest that one third of all UK deaths are war related is nonsense?

But to expand a little about whether the world would be different had the last two great ‘unpleasantnesses’ not been fought, perhaps there would be differences. Had we not had to repay America for lend-lease, then perhaps all those billions might have been poured into ‘educayshun.’

The essential thing is that we can never know. Who knows what some of those killed, on all sides, may have gone on to achieve? That is the tragedy of those conflicts. Unfulfilled potential.

Regards,

kev35

maybe but if all you can contribute to a difrent debate is ridiculing others maybe it would pay to shut up !!

I have no opinion one way or the other, but I would point out the following paragraph.

“but my friend was made redundant from a job as an undertaker a few years ago , the excuse was the people that should have been dying then had died during the war ( what you see on war memmorials is 1/3rd of the figure as 2/3rds were civillians !! )”

That is completely untrue. In my home town of Walsall, the population was somwhere around 120,000 at the time of the Great War. The Roll of Honour for those killed in the Great War who came from Walsall amounts to just over 2,000 men and women. By my calculation, one third of 120,000 is 40,000. But perhaps they’ve altered arithmetic since I was at school. They’ve certainly altered spelling.

Regards,

kev35