By: trumper - 20th May 2005 at 16:49
I would think it is almost impossible to judge.If you had bad equipment ,low morale,poor maintainence,uneven odds and numbers against you and you still scored some kills then it was probably more of an achievement than if you owned the skies in the best planes.
By: Alex Crawford - 20th May 2005 at 16:28
I’ll second ‘Pat’ Pattle.
If he had survived the Greek Campaign I reckon he would have went on to greater things at the controls of a Spitfire.
By: HP57 - 20th May 2005 at 16:10
If you shoot down a lot of enemy fighters then you are a good fighter pilot and would make a great ace, but if you are losing the battle that’s another story.
But, if apart from your own score you train other pilots in the unit and let them achieve many victories themselves so as to boost the units effective kill ratio (and making a difference in the battle between Allies and Axis) then you are an excellent ace. I believe Johnnie Johnson fits in this category.
Just to put some oil on the fire
Cees
By: TempestNut - 20th May 2005 at 14:52
Absolutely NO CONTEST!
Hans Joachim Marseille.
Every one of his victories were against Western pilots, in the best machines they had available. 17 British fighters in one day!
A bit of a bad lad, but a damn good fighter pilot!
Regards
Black6
Good choice but the same system that made him an ace also drove him to his death
By: Stieglitz - 20th May 2005 at 13:26
Absolutely NO CONTEST!
Hans Joachim Marseille.
Every one of his victories were against Western pilots, in the best machines they had available. 17 British fighters in one day!
A bit of a bad lad, but a damn good fighter pilot!
Regards
Black6
Finaly someone who mentions this pilot. Marseille is also at the top of my aces list. So I’ll support the post of Black 6.
Stieglitz
By: Arabella-Cox - 20th May 2005 at 10:15
Absolutely NO CONTEST!
Hans Joachim Marseille.
Every one of his victories were against Western pilots, in the best machines they had available. 17 British fighters in one day!
A bit of a bad lad, but a damn good fighter pilot!
Regards
Black6
By: Arm Waver - 20th May 2005 at 09:52
Be fair to Alvin. He did start a thread a while back about his website and that it is a work in progress…
By: vinsoko - 20th May 2005 at 09:36
Good grief…No Pattle or ‘Sailor’ Malan?
By: Dave Homewood - 20th May 2005 at 09:13
No Kiwi aces either – NZ had more aces per capita than any other nation (according to the NZ Fighter Pilots Museum)
When the museum opened I was there, and I was very pleased to meet several aces and pilots including the late Colin Grey (NZ’s top ace), and the late Des Scott. Both were really nice chaps. Colin told me about after being taken off ops he was trained as a special agent and dropped behind enemy lines – something not many people know! From memory it’s not even in his autobiography, though maybe it is, I can’t remember. He told me this because I was a parachute packer then, which brought us to the subject. He said as a fighter pilot he’d tried and succeeded having to use his parachute and then found himself being trained to use of to deliberately jump from a plane.
I personally rate Colin as my top ace – top scoring Kiwi, top bloke and who else was an ace and a spy???
By: Arabella-Cox - 20th May 2005 at 06:05
Who was the greatest?
You decide
I hate to say but a very limited site? For example in the American section no Navy or Marine Aces were even listed? (i.e. Mc Campbell, Boyington, Hansen, Kepford, etc.) I am a big Corsair fan and had the pleasure to meet Pappy Boyington many years ago.
By: oz rb fan - 20th May 2005 at 05:51
there doesnt seem to be any pacific based aces no ira kepford,bong or others not even any japanese aces or aussie’s like clive caldwell or sakai
By: SOC - 20th May 2005 at 02:54
He might not be the best, but credit has to go to Francis Gabreski (28 kills WWII, 6.5 in Korea) for mastering combat during WWII and the jet age over Korea.
By: Corsair166b - 20th May 2005 at 02:03
Hartmann, no contest….352 kills if I recall correctly…
M
By: BlueNoser352 - 20th May 2005 at 01:30
Top fighter ace !
Well going by sheer numbers…hartman (352) but on the American list no **** Bong, Thomas J McGuire, George Preddy Jr. There is no end to this debate among air historians. Hartman’s numbers are so mind boggling!!!! This topic is always good for a great discussion.
BlueNoser352!
By: T J Johansen - 19th May 2005 at 23:27
Me……;) 😀 Or Erich Hartmann!
T J
By: Snapper - 19th May 2005 at 23:23
Johnny Baldwin.
By: Firebird - 19th May 2005 at 23:08
An impossible decision really, with the differences between the First World War and the Second World War and everything since then, but……
Heinz Bar.
By: Andy in Beds - 19th May 2005 at 22:48
Oswald Boelcke.
By: EN830 - 19th May 2005 at 22:23
Where’s Johnny Johnson in this list ?
Ah found him, though not with the British Aces
By: Helican - 19th May 2005 at 22:15
Erich Hartmann…no contest in my eyes…
And if ground kills would count..then Hans Ulrich Rudel.
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May 19, 2005 at 8:33 pm