Whole life sentences and an alternative

…….yes, maybe. And we do spend much of our time on here thinking wishfully and there’s no harm in that.

Yes, you are largely right, it is tho’ the crime that is important not necessarily how it is commissioned. But then, most of the topics on General Discussion are ‘wishful thinking’. Many of the items we discuss, are the consequence of the outrage some of us feel when confronted with some of the realities of modern life.

No matter how logical or innovatory, in Parliamentary terms, the chances of these proposals seeing the light of MPs attention is next to nil.

But, hope springs eternal. Maybe, just maybe, in the absence of any other measure designed to satisfy the instinct of the victims and the public for condign punishment and the impulse to add another dimension to the impact of whole life sentencing and in the absence of any suggestion of a return to capital punishment, maybe, just maybe………

I recon all the bleeding hearts of the Human rights brigade should be put in the same cell.

On what charge by law?

Due entirely to the pernicious doctrines of the liberal far left

Entirely? Methinks you doth complain too much… (Thanks to Shakespeare for literary guidance)

I don’t see that the original proposal has been persuasive. And at the root of it is the requirement of a change in the law. The martyrdom aspect is important and has to be addressed as does the need for prison sentencing and prison conditions to be toughened – neither of which seem remotely likely in the foreseeable future.

But as a piece of wishful thinking it does have some merit.

But i am worried you MAY be giving them what they want,where s the punishment in that.
For Example ,You are suffering with an illness making your life a misery.You also have some grudges to settle, a win win situation.You murder all those you perceive to have done you down and their families to make their lives hell,you get arrested sent to prison treated for for illness ahead of the queues so you can stand trial .Then get sent to prison where you end it all ,everything you want.

I think that those who murder their victims, should be dispatched by exactly the same methods as THEY killed their victims.Just think of the money it would save, was it Moggy who stated it costs £37.000 per year to keep a person in prison?.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Trump

They are all murderers and have brought misery and extreme cruelty to many. Let’s be shot of them, as speediy as may be possible.

Right,ok there are separate types of murder.There s the Dennehey /Yorkshire Ripper type murder and the terrorist religious type atrocity where the religious bombers believe they will become martyrs and have a 1000 virgins waiting for them.

I think each case should merit it’s own levels of choice and options.
Maybe Dennehy /Sutcliffe could be given the option of self inflicted death IF the VICTIMS family agree but people who wish to die for their cause should be forced to stay alive to prohibit that wish.

For reasons that elude me, we seem to be hooked up on the question of martyrdom, when the real and only question posed is about choice.

There are many choices available to the convict, I’m trying to extend them. It the EU have their way, prisoners will soon have a voting choice. Which means a significant portion of their civic rights will be restored. What next? Well, my proposal for starters.

Apart from a much tougher prison regime – we all want that – we’ll enshrine the right of a long term (excess of 30 years) or whole lifer, to pull the plug, at a moment of their choosing.

There can be only two objections to this proposal: One moral; the other practical. The moral argument is non existent. The monsters who are the subject of this discussion have by their actions disqualified themselves from moral considerations. The practical ? That is a matter of logistics and mechanics and easily overcome.

Are there really any on this Forum who would prefer to see Joanna Dennehy continue the rest of her existence in the plush comfort of a womans prison, lacking no creature comforts, rather than, that after some considerable time when she has had an opportunity to reflect on the extent of the misery and cruelty she has inflicted on so many, and the fact that she will now die in prison at the end of her natural life, that she should not have access to the lethal dose ?

Let her have the choice.

So are we saying that a convicted murderer can legally end his / her life. But a person dying of terminal illness cannot?

Martyrdom is exercised out of a warped and misguided sense of destiny so the comforts or otherwise of prison are irrelevant.

In any case I can’t see any likelihood of the law being changed to allow it.

Let’s all agree on far tougher sentencing and far tougher prison regimes.

Lifers, IMHO should be confined to “Solitary” confinement for their entire sentence, no privelages whatsoever. and life to mean just that, the whole of the prisoners life. The punishment should fit the crime. But I am biased, as I have seen things that would bring a tear to ones eyes, specialy when the Criminal has employed a good Silk, who got them off. I honestly don’t know how any Brief, can represent any Criminal in Court, knowing full well their client DID commit the crime they have been charged with.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

They are not going to die regardless. Only if they choose.

There will at the moment and for the forseeable future be little incentive to exercise their choice because of the top heavy comforts offered by the present prison regime.

They will only exercise their choice if in their warped thinking the advantages – as they see it – of death outweigh those of prison life. I’d like to make that process as easy and as available as possible.

Trumper

If that is going to happen it will happen irrespective of anything any of us can do, Sadly.

Yes but if THEY think they will die regardless that may encourage them to keep going.Whilst they know they will rot in jail in pain for a long time they may not be quite so keen.I want to see them suffer big time.
Nice to see someone who was released at i daresay a big cost to everyone in terrorist activities again ” ex-Guantanamo detainee Moazzam Begg remanded in custody”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26395066

Trumper

If that is going to happen it will happen irrespective of anything any of us can do, Sadly.

Re 35

Charlie, don’t prevent terrorist martyrdom – let them get on with it. We then have the best possible outcome. Hordes (hopefully) of would be martyrs being successful.

They think they win – we know we win !

.

Yes BUT ,every time one of them wants to become a martyr they have to commit murder and that means innocent victims blown to bits 🙁

John – we are probably on opposite sides of the same coin.

Having surmounted the legal hurdle then far tougher sentencing and far tougher prison conditions might offer your proposal a chance. Although I disagree with your martyrdom argument – I don’t want to give them the pleasure – I want them to suffer for the rest of their lives.

Re 35

Charlie, don’t prevent terrorist martyrdom – let them get on with it. We then have the best possible outcome. Hordes (hopefully) of would be martyrs being successful.

They think they win – we know we win !

What’s left of my plan, is we then keep getting rid of scum who have forfeited the right to live in any form of civilized society and with any luck, as more and more scum are sentenced to extremely long prison visits, the only choice available to them should become more attractive.

Prison at the moment, as most of us know, is in no sense a deterrent. We have now the spectacle of criminals talking to TV and the Press about how easy prison life is and in some cases looking forward to it !

Many of us who use this Forum have known some form of struggle in our private and personal lives. Paying bills, putting food on the table, making sure our children get a decent education, clothing ourselves and our family, putting enough money to one side to try to buy a holiday – every five or so years.

Don’t you think that prison where everything is paid, everything is cleaned, plus three meals a day, dentist and doctor on tap – no waiting there ! Don’t you think that prison is a very attractive option ?

As Tony asserts, if he – and me and one or two others – had their way, prison would become the rather harsh correctional facility which in this country and others it used to be, that is until the liberal far left took over running our consciences.

Yes there is John, you are giving them a choice to end the suffering, something they never gave to their victims, so why should they have that privilege?
If that is the way fwd, bring back the death sentence……… end off

I am a firm believer in the punishment should be just that, punishment. I would remove the rights to TV, leisure activities etc from prison, a cell would consist if a concrete plinth with a mattress and a bucket…. You would get 1 hours exercise per day to fraternise, and a staple diet to sustain you without choice, the rest would go. It’s ok giving people all these amenities, BUT making a prison more like freedom reduces the effect of prison and also reduces the deterrent.

Well fair enough then – once you have overcome the hurdle of state sponsored suicide you will still have to prevent terrorist martyrdom, which will be inevitable and the fact that no other category of murderer is likely to make use of it.

So I am not sure what of your scheme is left.