Why does the Flying Legends Airshow at DX cause such a lather on this Forum?

Well said Pete. We (Kiwis ~ flightless birds) can only look at these threads etc. and wonder at the marvel that is the UK warbird scene. My brother has just retuned from a month in the UK (June) absolutely raving about Duxford (the museums and general setup, not Legends which he missed). I am so looking forward to travelling there myself one of these years, hopefully experiencing the Legends Lather, and raising a glass at the Red Lion to friends past and present.

Warbirds

Greetings fellow plane gimps

I’ve been a lurker here for a while now, mainly to nab some of the awesome warbird pics you guys post up here. This thread I thought I had to contribute to however. Now I’m not sure how many of you posters are girlies but I am, and it seems I’m in the minority when it comes to split-tails who are into Warbirds and all things Air Force.

I have been a Warbird obsessive since my first glimpse of the Sally B at Lowestoft Air Show about 4 years ago. She flew past flanked by a Spit or a P51 (can’t remember!) and it was like a light had been flicked on inside me – you can’t explain it but you guys know what I’m talking about – and from that day on it’s something that never leaves you. I too feel a sense of awe and get a stonking lump in my throat whenever I see the outline of the BBMF approaching, or the roar of that fabulous Gryphon (Griffin??) engined Spit over my head. And I was born nearly 30 years after the war!!!

My main interest is the USAAF and the 8th AF heavy bombers and I frequently lurk at the many East Anglian control towers that have been restored to fantastic museums and memorials to the Yanks who flew from them. Reading books and learning more about what all the airmen went through in the war, both US and UK, Polish, and even the German pilots …. gives you a profound sense of respect to what these men did for us, it is indeed very humbling, and makes you realise that if you think you’re having a bad day, think what sort of “bad days” they went through and it puts your petty life worries into perspective. I’ve also had the honour of hanging out with US 8th AF veterans and chatting to them, something that I treasure ever second of as they are so few now and soon there will be none left – all their stories will die with them.

I’ve been going to Duxford FL now for 3 years, I help out on a stall there and I enjoy every minute of the show. Because I don’t get to go to any other big shows throughout the year I never tire of the FL format. The crowd of Spitfires all buzzing around at once is great, I never know where to look! Same for the P51s, the howl of the wind in their gun barrels gives me chills. I nearly wet myself this year when the two B17s dared to fly a bit closer to eachother (was v.disappointed last year when they were at opposite ends of the field), and seeing them fly over on return from London with the Lanc and the Mitchells, well – I could have died happy there and then. Wish they’d done a few more passes though 🙁 🙁

My only whinges about FL are the fee to walk down the flight line, which I think is grossly unfair. Is there a reason why they have to charge for this or is it just more profiteering? You’ve already paid a Kings ransom to get in, bought a programme, paid for petrol to get there, yet they want another £4 off you to get near the warbirds? Umm I don’t think so. Also agree with the previous postings about the idiots who stand up when the flying begins. Er do you think that will MAKE A DIFFERENCE??? They are in the air!! Standing up achieves nothing apart from making me want to slap you very hard! Why bring a fold-up chair if you’re only going to stand up once a Spitfire takes off? 😡 😡

I was alarmed to see a full-on spectator setup this year too, it was a foldaway “settee” chair complete with attached roof, and a full-length army camp-bed behind it, presumably for whoever got bored and fancied a kip amidst the roar of the Rolls Royce engines …. What next – B&Q Gazebos to block our views??

Another whinge is that you can’t get to meet and chat with the veterans that are in the signing tents unless you spend the earth on a print or a book. I’d love to be able to just say hello and shake their hands, but I can’t afford it! But I guess if it was a free for all they’d get swamped ….

I also remember last year I think it was – there was a big stink about some Luftwaffe veterans attending the show to sign books etc – and so many people were blustering about it and saying how disgraceful it was. Erm I disagree. Those guys were just fighting for their country, as were our guys. They had the same level of skill and expertise, faced the same dangers, believed that they were doing the right thing as did our boys, and no doubt felt the same sadness and fear as they pulled the trigger or avoided another blast of bullets, or drifted to the ground on a parachute praying that if they were captured, that they would not be harmed and would make it home one day to their families and loved ones.

It’s very scary to read all the rumours of airshows slowly dying out, and now with the fate of Sally B hanging in the balance I just want to get over to Brussels and kick all those MEPs who are bringing in all these stupid laws, and also the CAA. Our litigous society is making insurance for these events skyrocket too, when will the madness stop?

I hope all you guys who were at FL signed the petition for the Sally B and donated a few quid towards her running costs. I believe she’s at Lowestoft again this year, I will be there on Thursday to enjoy the show and hopefully not get rained on – forecast is not looking good!!!

Toodle-pip

A thoughtful, accurate, and thought-provoking response there James, which I tend to concur with.

Tim, on reflection after this particular weekend, I’d also hazard a guess at Flying Legends weekend being quite a prominent event in a number of people’s social calendars. It’s certainly well up the list on my calendar, as I’ve developed a number of friendships with other forum members over the years, and Flying Legends weekend seems to be one of the few weekends when a large scale get-together is possible. I would suggest, given the healthy attendance at the Red Lion on Saturday night, that I’m not alone in this. Consequently, and perhaps subconscuiously, our banter (and silliness?) levels tend to increase as the weekend approaches…?

Just a thought.

James.

Yes I did mean the Fighter Meet at North Weald.

I agree with many of your sentiments hence my post. Good airshow even if a bit samey. Some variety can be obtained by varying where one views the display from.

Perhaps FL2006 can incorporate a little evolution.

Peter. Quote “You have to admit that the numerous posts about L****** are getting a little tiresome…”

Exactly why I started the thread. Too many threads with very little to say. However I don’t expect it to change.

tc

You have to admit that the numerous posts about L****** are getting a little tiresome…

Don’t you mean ‘Classic Fighter’ Merlin?

Given the hoo-hah about this topic in the past, and the sacred cow nature of Flying Legends, I’ve tried to avoid the topic so far, but you asked…

‘The Fighter Meet’ was at North Weald, ‘Great Warbirds’ at West Malling, and with ‘Classic Fighter’ at Duxford and other warbird shows at Old Warden and Duxford, as well as other one-offs.

Nostalgia is a deceptive thing, but to me, there was a greater willingness to try different things, formats and activities. There were a lot less warbirds in the air, and even more critically, less qualified pilots, but the shows were varied, exciting and surprising – there’s a lot of reasons why, among which are the facts that I was younger and less familiar with the aircraft, a more informal and less regulated approach to airshows and less accessory marketing – no ‘gold pass’ no grandstands for extra cost, no flightline walks for extra cost (DX had a DAS operated photobus for a while.) You can decide if you think this is an improvement or a negative; you don’t have to pay today, if you don’t wish to, but, likewise, the aircraft were closer to the crowd at DX in the eighties. Of course, that was then, this is now, and I don’t really believe we’d be to greatful for the 80s being brought back.

Now, before anyone goes off pop, please read the following closely. It’s my opinion, not holy writ, or axe grinding.

In my opinion, both Flying Legends and the Old Warden airshows have both got repatative and rather ‘samey’. In both cases there’s good reasons for this, and the crowds and feedback indicate that’s what people say they want.

If you go to one airshow a year or one Shuttleworth, that’s fine – you’ll not notice, and there’s good reason for the formula. Tellingly, I’ll happily attend endless OW shows, and Mrs JDK likes OW too – it’s a relaxed friendly venue and doesnt suffer from the excess testosterone on show at DX.

Personally the sparkle at FL was lost several years ago for me. The same Mustang tailchase (slight variation in the actual a/c put up, but generally ‘D’ models, whith two notable and underused exceptions) the Spitfires doing the same figure 8 as the Mustangs, the Balbo at the end, the joker display, the ‘guest star’ aircraft which appeared briefly – each year was (and is) essentially the same formula. This year I missed it, as I did last year. This year I got to see Temora, NSW, and last year I got to go to Oshkosh instead. For me, a great trade.

I take off my hat to those who put on Flying Legends – it’s a magnificent achievement and the fact I can take it for granted is a tremendous compliment to their ability to make the extra-ordinary seem normal. Bloody good show, and a very big and heartfelt ‘thank you’. But it’s no longer an ‘essential’ call for me. This year I’d like to have seen the SAAB, for sure, perhaps the DC-3, and it’d have been a nice day out, but I’m undismayed at missing it.

I think Legends is a victim of it’s own success. There’s no real surprise. The formula is formulaic, and that’s not healthy. In 2003, the Autumn DX show with the South African Airways 747 and that French bloke with the birds were the two most impressive and surprising acts of the year at DX, for me.

The absolute bull over ‘what constitutes a legend’ that crops up about this commercial show with an elastic portfolio does no-one credit and dishonours all those that fly, rebuild and operate vintage aircraft excluded from some arbitry listing; and more arrogantly those who flew and operated those less glamerous types in war.

In it’s very nature a warbird show is going to be backward looking – but there’s a resistance to variation in the formula which I find detremental to the show’s success. It can be summed up as the arguement between the camps of “If it’s not broke, don’t fix it” and “It’s best to fix things before they break.” I reckon Flying Legends is rather brittle.

I think airshows should be varied, exciting and surprising. Legends gets a big, big tick next to exciting, but not by the other two. I got bored and wandered off, and had a great time at lots of other shows in lots of other places. Lucky me. I’ve learned a lot of what can make a great show. Anyone who has seen the American ability for putting on an event knows how stoneage the rest of the world can seem in contrast. There’s things that La Ferte, Temora, FiO, Oshkosh and others can show British shows (and vice-versa) but there’s got to be a desire to learn first.

If you think Legends is perfect, great or the best thing of your year, great. Glad you enjoy it. It’s brilliant we’ve got it, and yes, I rank it as one of the world’s top shows. But it’s not perfect, and some people (uncritically) think it is.

I’ve made suggestions in the past as to what would be nice to see (for instance more acts, better correographed – you can tell it’s pilot driven not by trained dramatists – as evinced by the focus on getting the planes up to the determent of everything else. I’ve seen a Hetzer tank ‘knocked out’ on the grass of DX with a Storch running Observation over it – pyros may, I believe, be out, but it’s not what the issues are stopping change, but a determination on doing last years effort again.

I’ve bothered to put a case with a bit of thought. Please don’t throw teddies at me, I’m not bothered. However, if you’ve got something to say, go ahead!

Feel free to discuss.

(PS: In answer to your question Merlin70, it’s the most Spitfires closest to the Forum’s ‘epicentre’, so to use a sporting analogy, it’s ‘the home game’. Witness the Zimmer frame of airshow rarity Mark12 seen on the Tank Bank. 😉 )

Anyone who needs to raise a question along the lines of this thread’s title has obviously not attended Legends.

Not obvious at all? The alure of the place and the event is not in question?

I visit Legends annually and before that the Fighter Meet. The question still unaswered is why people feel it necessary to create an abundance of threads weeks in advance full of speclation and tripe.

It has been interesting to read the personal and very varied reasons why people go to Legends and the variety of points as to why Legends is special.

Vivre Legends, Vivre le Clique.

London Olympics 2012 😀

I’ve attended loads of them.
I think too many people can see no further than Duxford.
Why not try a few different places next year?

As I pointed out on the thread ‘An Antidote for Flying Legends’ I am usually only able to get to about one airshow a year, if I get to more than two I’ve been exceptionally lucky. for that reason I have to select the best one available and it just seems to happen that it always turns out to be Legends. Mind you the fact that I always get my ticket in advance probably helps as I can then persuade my boss that I am definitely NOT working that weekend.

Thanks Guys! That means a lot. I am glad that the show went off without any accidents again this year. Long may that continue.

Here here, he wasnt forgotten mate.

Well Paul, Neil was toasted both nights by two different people.

I’ve attended loads of them.
I think too many people can see no further than Duxford.
Why not try a few different places next year?

Here here Andy exactly what I’ve been trying to say and James yes I attend Legends 95 and yes I enjoyed it but like I said I FEEL THAT GENESEO AND THUNDERS is a far better show. Thats my oppoin folks.

Cheers
RER

Anyone who needs to raise a question along the lines of this thread’s title has obviously not attended Legends.

I’ve attended loads of them.
I think too many people can see no further than Duxford.
Why not try a few different places next year?

Anyone who needs to raise a question along the lines of this thread’s title has obviously not attended Legends.

Aircrew have died trying to avoid non-paying public.

If you MUST hedge-hang don’t EVER put others at risk by narrowing their options. In short, it is better to be where you should be rather than hedge-hanging.

It is interesting that all the examples of bad temper I’ve seen in airshow crowds have been in Southern England. Too many people in too little space going “tut” rather than accomodating each other.

Good post Steve. I quite agree. My highlight was shaking the hand that had held the P-47 throttle 60 years to the hour earlier, on the D-Day 60th anniversary show at Duxford last year. Thank you, Colonel.

Thanks Snapper. This is obviously a difficult weekend for my family, and always will be. Neil loved the show though, so I hope it is a good one this year and that everyone has a great time there.

Zwitter.. if you want to see these aircraft flying then you should pay the entrance fee for any airshow. Those who sit outside the fence all day are basically jacking up the price for everyone else, and in some cases they cause a safety issue. The display line is there for a good reason.

While I agree with everything you say there are a few points I have to make.
Over the past few years I have had times of extreme financial hardship and been unable to afford to go in.
The manners of the crowd inside leave a lot to be desired, the step ladder brigade and the whingeing kids, last year I was on the Tank hill and people just blatantly stood in front of me while I was trying to take pictures.
The problems getting in and out, the cost of the food, the crap beer, lets face it, attending airshows anywhere isn’t pleasant, unless it’s Rougham.
My first airshow was Newton 1956, so I’ve been to a few.
It is very easy to leave home late, have a pint in the pub at Duxford, and crash out on the Hill, no crowds, no one in the way and unbelievable views of the aircraft, however risky that may be.
However I am always aware of my lack of contribution to the event, perhaps someone should come round with a tin.
Will be paying again this year but will no doubt get P****** of with the crowd.
Just for the record, have attended every Legends, only 2 on the Hill.

Flying Legends, for me at least, has changed immeasurably over the past few years. In my younger years, it was ‘just’ a warbird display on my doorstep, which offered the sight and sound of Spitfires, Mustangs, Hurricanes, Bf109’s (okay, Buchons), a Lancaster, B17, Mosquito, and all sorts of other legendary collections of metal, cavorting around the sky. More graceful than the fast jets I’d go to see at Mildenhall and Alconbury, in a setting that seemed a bit more intimate. And every year, there would be something different.

Heaven on earth, you would have thought. Yet I found that eventually, I found the Flying Legends displays to be getting a bit ‘samey’. There are only so many tailchases that you can watch before getting slightly blase about them, and the whole event, for me, was losing it’s appeal. I realise now that I was taking it all for granted.

So in 2002, for the first year in ages, I chose not to go. I figured a break would do me good, give me a bit more of a sense of excitement in 2003.

In 2003 I attended on the Sunday, having spent the Saturday afternoon carrying out my first solos for nine years in the circuit at nearby Cambridge airport. I also realise after checking times in my logbook, that while aloft, I witnessed Neil and Bill’s last flight, although I didn’t realise it at the time. My exaltation on flying an hour of solo circuits was swiftly dampened after I landed and was told the news, and I spent some time afterwards feeling very guilty about the fact that I – a time expired PPL looking to get requalified – had flown and lived, yet at the same time two highly experienced men had flown a few short miles away from me, and died. I still struggle with that.

So on the Sunday I attended, but with a very heavy heart. I don’t remember much of the display. However, I did spend some time with a number of forum members, which helped the day pass well, and also convinced me to travel overto Norfolk the following day to attend a memorial dedication service to a couple of 609 Typhoon pilots.

I realise now, that that weekend changed my perspective on many things, and especially on Flying Legends. Last year showed me that it’s ot the aeroplanes – wonderful as they are – that make the weekend, but it’s the people and the memories. Last year I attended another memorial dedication, again organised by Snapper. I then spent time on the flightline with a former RAF Armourer (who I am eagerly looking forward to meeting again tomorrow) who held me spellbound with tales of his time in the Far East, and was visibly moved to be reunited with a P47 for the first time in god-knows-how-many years. And later, I spent time in the company of a former 609 Typhoon pilot, who had also flown catapult Hurricanes off merchant ships, been captured by the Germans, and spent time in a concentration camp. That man’s advice to me on landing taildraggers – “Always three-point it son” – will stay with me to my dying day.

Those are the things that make Flying Legends special to me. And they’re the reason why my eyes fill with tears as the final balbo passes overhead. Every time.

I think that the outpouring of excitement, speculation and anticipation seen on this forum is great – a positive and welcome indication of peoples love for the event, performers and machines. I’ve enjoyed every ‘Legends that I’ve attended, it’s the FA Cup Final of the airshow calendar and something we should be proud of. Unfortunately I can’t be there this year but wish everyone a safe and enjoyable show and I look forward to seeing some superb pictures on Monday morning!

Thanks Snapper. This is obviously a difficult weekend for my family, and always will be. Neil loved the show though, so I hope it is a good one this year and that everyone has a great time there.

Zwitter.. if you want to see these aircraft flying then you should pay the entrance fee for any airshow. Those who sit outside the fence all day are basically jacking up the price for everyone else, and in some cases they cause a safety issue. The display line is there for a good reason.

I can’t go to legends this year, but after going to the VE day show, I’m not so bothered – the thing that’s ruined Duxford shows for me is that evrything displays so far from the crowdline. It’s like watching an air display from the next field.

Maybe that’s the solution… hmmm