XH558 – The Vulcan Will Fly

Most people have donated money towards this appeal.

I think that’s highly unlikely – MOST people don’t know a thing about it, in my experience.

Most people, contrary to popular opinion, don’t go to airshows, so never ever see a blue bin.

Most people have donated money towards this appeal. How deep is the pockets. There must come a point when someone has to say enough is enough. Most people pass the blue bin and put their money in, but it doesn’t seem to be making any inroads into what is required. Alot of money is needed but most people don’t have buttomless pockets. There must be some finality to this project, there have been many predictions and many false claims, lets have some reality. The VOC can’t expect Joe public to fund the short fall by themselves. I can see the headlines the vulcan doesn’t fly because the enthusiasts didn’t stump up. I will wait and see. If all doen’t go well why should she go to Duxford. There are other sites.

Shorts

its up to you not the HLF or the TVOC

Excellent point, well made.

the point that is being made is that xh558 if you want to se fly again needs your help .
809 views to this thread
all good points and some poor points have been said the point being is
next time you go to a airshow or other event and see a big blue drum next to the xh558 tent put a £1 in it or more if you like but a £1 will not hurt you 809 views to this thread thats £809 it’s that simple its up to you not the HLF or the TVOC now so dont walk by the bins and think its going to fly i could go on allday but will not preach ,
its up to you

is it really viable that she will be housed inside?

Even if both XJ824 and XH558 end up inside at Duxford it will still be a waste.

Their is no point in having 2 Vulcans inside at one place when their will still be tons of aircraft outside in 15 years time.

As I said before over the next 15 years their could be a well run funderaiseing project to enable the construction of a hanger at Elvington to also put their Victor undercover.

Paul – various modifications will have been carried out to her during the course of her service life. The ‘mods’ to K.2 and back to B.2 status are clearly part of her service life. Modifications which effectively delete large amounts
of her weapons and navigation systems cannot be seen as a part of her life as a warplane. Clearly the are warbirds flying around which have armour and weapons for instance deleted but these are carried out to the owners desire.
The essential difference is that any desire to retire to the IWM should ideally be faithful to their principles which are to preserve complete examples
of combat aircraft. Many argue that we should debate this in ten to fifteen years – I feel that the Vulcan isn’t something that can just be tucked into the corner and forgotten about. If massive effort is made in both fund raising and the technical side of overhauling her surely the IWM who are seen as the
future home for her could press release their intentions for her on her retirement.
Duplicates at Duxford have had a fairly chequered past at Duxford – is it really viable that she will be housed inside?

Anyway, there is no ECM gear in 558 anyway since she was converted back from K2 status, so she was’nt ‘original’ anyway.

Paul.

……they’d have one act absolutely guaranteed to cause them traffic nightmares and an absolutely heaving crowdline…!

Cant wait to see her at Cosford then…
:rolleyes:

Nige

any removal of redundant systems would make it unrepresentative as a type.

And is there any reason to suppose such “redundant” and therefore removed systems could not be put back in again. Would be fairly uncomplicated, I would have thought, if they’ve been put to one side and possibly cleaned up/serviced.

I don’t understand this argument – it’s simply a nutty one – remove them for flight, when people won’t be allowed to clamber all over her – then return them once she’s finished work. If they don’t have to be 100% serviceable, surely its not such a problem.

And once again, can I jsut say – it is pointless discussing where she will eventually end up, and the fate of her sisters, right now – give it 10 or 15 years – when she’s finished flying – then we can argue all we like.

Glad to know that people don’t care whether a restored static aeroplane is complete internally or not.

1) I think that is probably true of Joe Public

2) One difference is that you can’t stick you head into the Vulcan through the bomb door and see the interior

3) I’m sure the volunteers got/ get enormous satisfaction from what they have done. And our thanks too.

So edit your post and put a smiley in or I’ll complain to the moderator 😮 😉 :p

Moggy

Lets just wait for it to actually get in the air before we worry about where it will end up.

Well Said Willow.
558 should not go to Duxford as we all know about there 1 aircraft type plicy! When 558 comes to her final flight, then it should be kept at brunty to do taxi runs with all the other cold war jets!

Yes, I take your point that static aircraft left to rot can end up in an appalling condition, however, XH558 was complete and working when the decision was made to start work. Although it needed doing to make it fly it did still operate (and mighty impressive it was too). The Duxford example is exactly as it was when it was delivered and in that sense more original.

I realise that ‘most’ people visiting a museum wouldn’t be able to tell the difference whether an aeroplane is original or not, and probably aren’t going to get too upset if some relatively minor alterations have been made. But that is quite a short sited view. In many years time when there are even fewer Vulcans left (I’m talking about when any Vulcan left outside has returned to nature) it is our duty to preserve these machine in as original a condition as possible and I feel that XJ824 would do that better than XH558.

I look forward to seeing ‘558 in the air, but my opinion is that when the time comes for it’s last flight then there are other museums more deserving than Duxford as Duxford already has a perfectly good Vulcan. Elvington would be a sensible place as they do not have a Vulcan and they carry out (or did) taxi runs with their Victor. Bruntingthorpe would be ideal as hangar space is availible (see earlier comment!!) and taxi runs can also continue here.

Besides, is Duxford planning to have 2 Vulcans? or are there ‘other’ plans for XJ824?

Willow

[QUOTE=Willow]Glad to know that people don’t care whether a restored static aeroplane is complete internally or not.
Clearly the last 10 years worth of work by the Sunderland crew at Duxford has been a complete waste of time

Thanks

Willow

P.S. XJ824 at Duxford is undoubtably in better condition anyway because it hasn’t been taken apart and (hopefully) put back together again since it came out of service. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.[/QUOTE

The point I was trying to make is that a vast number of poeple who see a static (or flying for that matter) aircraft will not know anything about it and hence be even less bothered if it is complete inside. The people who do know will appreciate (which will include just about everyone on this forum), so the time and effort is justified. Bruce’s point about historical representation of a type is exactly right. It won’t alter that fact that the families who pass through the gates of Duxford probably won’t know or care.

As for XJ824, she may be in good order as she hasn’t been taken apart, but I know plenty of aircraft that haven’t and are ready for nothing more than the scrapman. The Vulvan at Blackpool is a case in point. Another good one would be a comparison of two Shacks: the duxford one, now very delapidated, but one that flew into the airfield, and Juliet at Gatwick, who has been taken apart, moved, reassembled and now is (looking at the photos) in pretty good order thanks to the efforts of a dedicated team

As for displaying her at Duxford (or wherever) when she finally runs out of life, how many of the people who willsee her willknow that there is no operational armaments system or no 1960’s nav kit? Of the small percentage who do know, who will care?

Glad to know that people don’t care whether a restored static aeroplane is complete internally or not.
Clearly the last 10 years worth of work by the Sunderland crew at Duxford has been a complete waste of time

Thanks

Willow

P.S. XJ824 at Duxford is undoubtably in better condition anyway because it hasn’t been taken apart and (hopefully) put back together again since it came out of service. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

I’d love to see a Vulcan (amongst others) fly again, but the idea of all that metalwork in the hands of someone ‘slightly enthusiastic’ worries the hell out of me.

Far too many old aircraft have been crashed, often tragically. A Vulcan accident would take the consequences to another level altogether.

Surely though in the case of the Shack, the CAA’s objection is to do with BAe design authority, and pressumably their concern over the spar fatique life, so throwing shed loads (HLF millions) at BAe for them to do a PA474 style re-spar would surely satisfy the CAA….

I totally agree, even Bae have a price! business is business.

mjr

andrewman,

I think my reply may have been a tad misleading.

It wasnt my intention to suggest that HLF dosh was the sole persuasive tool in gaining CAA approval. However, this situation has never arisen before, the HLf funding can only have indirectly strenghtened the CAA decision, because proper DA backing/infrastructure and logistics from Marshalls are secured.
Without huge dosh, there would be no Marshall backing, we are talking a cummulative budget of approx 5Million!! and probably much more in realistic terms!…..a lot of business. I doubt many past projects concerning one airframe have had that kind of budget to approach any DA??. The CAA’a policies are well known and publicised with regards to millitary types and backing, just take the infamous reaction to Thunder City lightnings and DA backing as an example, and yet, If you had such backing, funds, training resources, pilots etc (example: BAe operating 3 private lightnings in the early nineties), the CAA wouldn’t blink.
The DA’s aren’t interested in romantic notions etc etc, they are interested in business. Money. get the DA onboard and the CAA are far more positive. The CAA will no doubt be watching VTS closely, but if this partnership works out well, it can only have a positive outcome for CAA thinking in future.

mjr

With all due respect Steve I can understand why the 558 team have put some of these press comments out.

Sometimes people need a bit of a shock tatic to get them to help if people had been told that we need the money “sometime in the future” or whatever then the donations might not have come rushing in like they did.

But tell people “donate or we scrap the thing” and they will be only to happy to send in a few quid.

Just because they have used some unconventional press relsies etc its no cause to worry about their ability to operate a Vulcan after all we are dealing with BAE Systems the CAA and the VOC have plenty of staff who worked on and flew the Vulcan’s for the RAF in fact the planned Aircrew for 558 still taxi XM655 once a year so I think everyone knows what they are doing.

However, whatever speculation/critisism is levelled at VTS, the whole enthusiast community should be backing this project 100%, since whatever the outcome of this project, it is sure to colour the thinking of future decisions by LHF and DA’s for similar applications.

I take your point in general, but in view of the previous statements made by TVOC / VTS and their public stance and behaviour in recent times, I for one do NOT feel that they deserve my 100% backing.

If they had been rather more succint in their comments, more sympathetic towards the airframe and it’s eventual fate, and less cavalier in their financial decision making and publicity, I’d feel happier about them putting a four engined jet bomber into the sky above me. They weren’t, so I don’t.