The Super Hornet will likely be cheaper than either the Typhoon and/or Rafale. As a matter of fact the quoted price for the PAK-FA is ~100 Million and we know how prices always seem to go up!:eek: In short the PAK-FA will be everything but cheap!:(
Hi Scooter,
No doubt the F/A-18EF will be cheaper than the PAK FA and it should be unless it is offering qualities better than the PAK FA (overall).
However out of the MMRCA competition when you consider value for money it is one of the worst aircraft… India has technologies on its Su-30MKI’s that the USN is just about to get with the Ultra Hornet. Apart from an AESA radar it really has not a lot to offer for such a high cost.
If they sold the IAF the hornet for say $40million a piece it would make sense, but paying the same price or around the same price as a Su-30MKI for even less functionality in other fields other than radar seems fool hardy.
First of all, it uses extensive advanced composites, and uses advanced techniques to reduce RCS using proprietary techniques during manufacturing.
It also uses advanced Al and Ti alloys and isn’t quite the same as the legacy Hornet, even featuring about 40% fewer parts than the Hornet despite being larger. And Boeing is quite well known for its improved productivity rates thanks to Lean principles applied during the manufacturing process on the shop floor itself. they even consulted with HAL to improve their productivity using Lean techniques.
link
This is just one such article. You can google it up easily and see Boeing advances in super plastic forming, etc.
Cant comment on coatings for RCS, dont know about it. With regards to hole drilling etc, well its nothing new in manufacturing and the learning is not only with Boeing but also with companies such as ABB, Kuka, Kawasaki etc etc…They will function as system integrators to automate the standard operating procecures.
Titanium is a anoying material to work with or process but it has been used for some time and yes it is an advanced alloy but it is not new to the industry, India should have the details of how to process it.
What i am trying to get across and doing so very badly is that it isnt in all that sixe sigma or lean understanding but the composite/metal manufacturing and fabrication where the crown jewels are for India.
The manufacturing understanding would be taught at any good university as part of a course in Six Sigma and all those other wonderful flash buz words. Whether a business uses these practises is a matter of choice not down to lack of knowledge.
India first needs to learn how to produce Aerospace structures including inspection methods and stressing methods (which thanks to TATA etc it is doing) and then worry about the speed and business costs. If it can do both at the same time (and no reason for it not to) its even better!
With keeping the above in mind with newer aircraft you may not only get the modern manufacturing techniques and best practises but also meld them with latest composite processing technologies.
Remember unless Boeing has been re-certifying its production process for composites its base techniques or standard operating procedures will still be old, no matter what technologies it uses to make them faster.
You’re quite wrong here. The F/A-18’s production processes and manufacturing technologies are known in the industry to be excellent. very modern, with excellent LEAN practices. Its no coincidence that they actually not only meet, but exceed their delivery date schedules, with the RAAF’s F/A-18Fs being the most recent example.
Would be grateful if you could let me know in which way i am “quite wrong”.
aren’t India buying into the Russian take on the 5th generation?
I do think that the role of the MMRCA would bear repeating, because trying to work out where it will fit into the IAF now is quite hard (and not made any easier by the variation in size between the competitors).
It makes no sense at all these days. especially the technology transfer! IAF will get all the modern tech in the PAK FA ! so why buy an uber expensive F/A-18?
Anyways I would think if the IAF wanted tech transfer they should not leave out all the manufacturing technology and seriously should consider the gripen NG …. The F/A-18E/F structure is old and processing and production technologies nothing new!
With the J-20 finally outed surefly India should buy the cheapest, and used the saved up money to buy more AWACS or fund R&D for a fifth gen missilier!
MMRCA made sense way back then with all the heavy aircraft but situation has changed!
Any new news on the MMRCA contest?
Is the missing link a harrier?
Does Japan have MRBMS?
interesting formation, i am missing two names from that line up.
Is there a colour picture of the formation?
I would have thought Turkey would be one option, other than that as much as it would be good to see ASTOR in the IAF I doubt they would go for it. Sri Lanka could use a system like ASTOR.
What about Australia?
Nah doesn’t mean anything really.
I remember using 2000 to 2500 in combustion chamber and 1500 in stage 5 or first stage of turbines for engine cycle analysis.
If there are safety issues with the Mig-27 you have to wonder if a new FCS would help reduce the issues.
It seems to be a very volumous airframe and if HAL can make the airframe would not be such a bad aircraft if the engines and avionics were upgraded (i do not mean the radars etc but i mean the flight control system.).
IOC has been delayed by 2 yrs not more.which is acceptable.
About composites think of it this way..had it been all metal alloy weight would have been more , not less.Plus composites have their advantage like less corrosion , less airframe fatigue , and less rcs.All these problems would have been there with metal use.
I agree and would have not questioned it, but for certain reasons. Wrote a long reply but life is too short so lets just agree to disagree.
I dont blade the IAF and dont know the ADA although to me the excuses from them seem to be wafer thin and do not stand up to question.
I would still like to dispute this thing about the IAF being “spoilt” that is just a off the wall statement.
I suppose according to you these complete and utter failings of ADA will magically disappear when the mark 2 version reaches FOC?
There is more to this than a clever little comment.
I do not think for one minute the failures will magically disappear at foc of the mk2.
Unless they can return the mmrca aircraft back to the oem without any penalties or loss of money to the Indian tax payer.