mattThe above is not really completely true.. well the bit about BAe being a state owned company.
mattsheer nonsense that has nothing to do with what we were discussing. you said
here we have
which is $5.2 bn for the kind information of 180 degree matt.
I guess the Indian military must be goddam dumb to spend that amount of money on something which is ‘180degrees’ from what they need, per well informed self-professed expert shri 180degrees matt ? :rolleyes:
or that they have no idea if the system works in the field or not according to his excellency 180degrees matt ! :rolleyes:the figleafs are getting smaller and smaller sir, the result is not pretty. 😀
I would suggest you find some other hobby horse than mindless DRDO bashing.
I like your personal attacks and gutter comments gives me an indication of how vulnerable you feel.
However having a order and delivering on time and actually fulfilling the order are two different things. There is R&D and then there is PD …
mattis the honourable 180degree matt left to shifting the goalposts now ? 😀
by your logic if India doesn’t pick a military (mis)adventure or is not attacked by a military power then its weapons are useless ? same logic applies to most of europe’s weapons too ?
Maybe you have identified the problem with the DRDO, do they think that their work finishes when they have developed something in the lab? Maybe your right the DRDO should care if a unit is working or not in the field as long as they have proved it in some predefined major ensured to make sure the product they make looks successful?
They have finally tested Agni II i guess the Indian Army dont really need to be able to use it before its declared sucessful?
mattI fully agree with the above. Itna hi craze hai, why don’t the pro-privatization people first ask Bajaj to compete with Ducati and Tata Motors to compete with Mercedes first ? Or ask L&T to make supercritical boilers or 1000 MW reactors, and compete with Areva ?
Is it asking for too much ? After all these are the fields that the aforementioned companies have a traditional foothold in.
But no, all the pro-privatization guys want is to shut down ADA / DRDO and hand over fighter jet design to Tata and L&T. As though making a fighter jet would be easier than making a Merc.
You could use the same argument against ADA and DRDO. Let DRDO and ADA show they are good at making aircraft and engines that are world class not just replacements for Mig-21 but that can be compared to F-15E’s, F-22’s Su-27s or even Mig-29, F-16, Gripen or Super Hornet. Let them build a jet engine that works, let them build anti air missiles without going to israel for seeker technology. let them build a world class tank that actually works with the current Indian Army Logistic instead of one that requires the Indian army to change all its methods of transport etc. Let them build an radar..
Let them build an surface to Air missile comparable to any other in the world without outside help and within project time frames so that the IA, IAF dont have to spend just as much money on an interim solution..
Just playing devils advocate, I do not believe it is completely one-sided by any means..
mattThis should be read by every self-righteous newbie who thinks privatization is a cure-all.
Thanks for the articles, Kramer~Ashish
Not really Ashish, you have to ask a lot of questions about and to the person managing the external companies. How was it managed? Was it speced out properly? Was there a detail structure given? Did the external companies know before what was needed to be done? Was it the first time they were doing this? How were the private companies chosen? Was the contract given to someones nephews wifes fathers company?
I agree though having talked with people and got a glimpse of how things are percieved that the Indian private sector needs to change its mindset too. Asking for profit on an R&D project for example, instead of thinking long term and looking at the bigger picture of IP and future profitability and growth.
mattRussian-Indian work on 5G fighter to go ahead without extra deal
*
http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20100611/159390947.htmlRussian-Indian work on 5G fighter to go ahead without extra deal
Russian Sukhoi holding head Mikhail Pogosyan* Russia successfully tests Sukhoi T-50 Stealth fighter jet
* India, Russia mull building transport plane, 5G fighterRussian aircraft holding Sukhoi has no plans to sign additional agreements creating a joint venture with its Indian partners in the production of a fifth-generation fighter, the general director said on Friday.
Russian Sukhoi holding and Indian Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) agreed in early 2010 to jointly develop a fifth-generation stealth fighter jet.
Sukhoi head Mikhail Pogosyan had said that an additional agreement would be signed specifying the Indian role in the project, but on Friday he said that the Russian company hoped work would begin soon without any such deal.
“We don’t plan to sign a joint venture. We have agreed on joint work with our Indian colleagues,” Pogosyan said.
He said the joint work could be carried out under the current agreement.
“We will do our part of the work, our Indian counterparts theirs,” Pogosyan said. “At the initial stage it is not necessary to have a joint venture.”
Earlier, HAL was reported to be seeking a 25% share in design and development in the project.
Russia has been developing its fifth-generation fighter since the 1990s. The current prototype, known as the T-50, was designed by the Sukhoi design bureau and built at a plant in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, in Russia’s Far East.
Russian officials have already hailed the fighter as “a unique warplane” that combines the capabilities of an air superiority fighter and attack aircraft.
PARIS, June 11 (RIA Novosti)
Vote of no confidence ?
mattI fully agree with the above. Itna hi craze hai, why don’t the pro-privatization people first ask Bajaj to compete with Ducati and Tata Motors to compete with Mercedes first ? Or ask L&T to make supercritical boilers or 1000 MW reactors, and compete with Areva ?
Is it asking for too much ? After all these are the fields that the aforementioned companies have a traditional foothold in.
But no, all the pro-privatization guys want is to shut down ADA / DRDO and hand over fighter jet design to Tata and L&T. As though making a fighter jet would be easier than making a Merc.
No one is telling ADA or DRDO to hand over any designs, were saying let a group of private industries make their own designs, it might be better anyway.
mattI think the DOD is hoping it is obsolete.. not to say it will be when the F-35 comes to the front.
Do people think that the US DOD will need to start thinking of a A-10 replacement for the 2035 time frame to reduce risk?
mattWould the south korean defense firms not be interested in working with the japanese firms to develop a east asian stealth fighter?
A east asian consortium similar to EADS?
mattTha A-10 is an impressive bomb truck, built around the most impressive gun ever built, with high manouverability, impressive low level flying, long loiter times, carrying heaps of ammunition.
How on earth is that f-35 ever going to be able to replace that?
Even if stealth will be thrown over board the F-35 just doesn’t seem to match the requirements
well to one of the favourite questions of the board. A10 is being modernized. Search for a10 c and you will find some literature.
mattDefence aerospace has article saying 126 trench three eurofighters are offered for 12 billion. I’d that’s the case its a no brained.
mattErm when you have a few units of these and have been proven in battle not just on a test range to be similar to be patriot and when you have units of Agni II, III and V operation in the Indian Army with a functioning thermonuclear warhead your very welcome to gloat.:D
mattThe above is accurate.
matt, you seem to have little idea about IAF’s bungling in the Tejas. It is true that Tejas was originally meant to be in the 5.5-6 ton category. But you see, 1987 is not the same as 2005. And hence, even the requirements are not the same.
During the 1990s, IAF demanded many additions to the Tejas that were impossible to have been accommodated within this weight limit. Avionics additions, performance specs that demanded airframe changes, etc. Thus, Tejas’ weight was bound to increase.
And yet, this does not mean that Tejas is “overweight”. I can challenge you to name any fighter jet, that has 8 hardpoints to carry 3.5 tons of weapons, quad-digital FBW, and nearly all avionics of Su-30 MKI —- and which weighs only 5.5 tons.
For your information, Gripen C weighs 6.5 tons, and it has exactly the same specs as Tejas Mk.1. JF-17 too weighs the same (and it has somewhat inferior specs than Tejas). Even S. Korean T-50 trainer weighs 6.4 tons, and it is way inferior to Tejas, which weighs only 100 kgs more.
What’s more, the trinity of Gripen-C/D, T-50 and Tejas Mk.1 are all powered by the good old GE-F404. So how can one say that Tejas is “overweight” ?
What does not work out , if we accept it is down to a creep in requirements alone and not a combination of issues with the manufacturing process of the structure or the selection of Composites with low specific strength and scope creep, is that if the weight has been increased to account for the increase in scope of the Tejas and weapons the LCA was supposed to carry then the structure would have had to be beefed up to make sure the Tejas could still do 9g.
However the weight has gone up and the g limit is 6.5g some people have in the past pointed out that this is due to the engines not being able to provide enough excess thrust but that is not as plausible.
mattDo not understand what you mean to say.
How will the IAF giving greater impetus to the Tejas have improved things?
mattBeing overweight by 1000kgs is not the fault of the engine. Would the engine have been powerfully enough if the Tejas structure and payload was lighter.
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