mattIs it possible that the attitude of the private sector needs to change and also the defense ministry needs to pick the main large firms and work with them only. Let these firms work with the smaller company.
Fact is no one makes profit directly from r n d.
mattBest place to ask is the General aviation thread.
However check out P&W and GE, do searches for open rotor or ultra high bypas gas turbine.
http://www.cleansky.eu/index.php?arbo_id=35
In terms of working our a cost benifit for the aviation industry as well as environmental you would have to ask Airbus what a lighter more efficient engine would mean to them (if that is what you are writing about.)
matt“Will have to see”? Hmmm, you aint an indian citizen (ergo dont live in India), how would you see bar secondary research? And quite frankly, you seem to be lacking here.
Throwing around terms like “add to the value” is all well and good. But do tell me & Kramer – how many DRDO projects are you aware of, and the complexity they entail vis a vis India’s current industrial infrastructure..
getting personal, ok if you want to let your emotions out fair enough.
If you and Kramer work for the DRDO then fine you have me at a disadvantage, if that is what you mean by working in the “Domain”.
Otherwise i agree that it is difficult to get all the issues here. A lot more gets posted on sites like BR but I do not see how if you are an Indian Citizen living in Mumbai, Kolkata or Chennai how you would know more about the DRDO projects than anyone else in the world unless you actually worked in the defense sector or had family members work in the sector.
mattI
BTW, this isn’t India specific..the UK also has had procurement issues with the US, for instance the F-35 access to technology issues. Eventually it was resolved to both parties’ satisfaction, but I didn’t hear anyone saying that the guys in UK who committed billions of $ in development money as well as the future of the RN’s carrier wing to the F-35B without getting iron-clad guarantees on technology access ought to have been fired or taken to task for having done so in the first place..
If you do a search on the forum we had this discussion about UK’s involvement with the F-35 a year or two ago and at the time the UK government was dithering as to whether it would continue with the purchase of the F-35.
A lot of posters here said the same thing, the UK MOD knew what it was doing when it signed up to the F-35 it couldn’t cancel because there was no breach of contract in that instance so live with it.
Main issue was about the software on the F-35 and the fact that the UK was not able to modify upgrade or otherwise.
Japan also gets a raw deal look at the F-2 nightmare they have faced, having to get permission from congress, Naval bases, Taiwan dumped at the last minute etc etc.
The other thing to note is that the UK policy basically aligns with the US, no one is after our territory here in the UK. So it works for the UK.
Its not the same for India. India is a emerging world power (if not already emerged) with real existential threats to its borders, but that is a political discussion and is one of the reasons I edited my posts to a 2 liner after i posted it.
mattDRDO and other state-run firms have had a monopoly in defense R&D and production for ages. The government favour this as well. I think as long as this continues we will see the same issues in future products.
Some like Teer may rightly argue that private firms are not much better and that they do not have the capability. I think they will acquire it much faster than any DPSU can because they have more motivation because of the profits. Its understandable that they are reluctant now because the government clearly favour the DPSUs.
May be it will take many decades and several delayed projects for the government to finally wake up.
Have to agree with Teer.
Doesnt matter how, you need to shake the cowebs generated when people start working for state run organisations and the issue of people becoming too comfortable when they work for the government is seen all over. But privatisation isnt a panacea, example is the UK industries now privatised such as Railtrack.
mattsome Indians think that just because they’re now living in the UK they can sit on a perch and ridicule everything that other Indians do. :rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
Hey you discovered emoticons well done, anyway without getting personal read my post again, the question has already been answered by another poster who clarified the article please read through the thread.
mattFrom what I understand, and if they are the same contracts this is to do with the EULA and the requirements by the US to provide it information and in effect sovereignty over any equipment purchased and used by the Indian Armed forces.
Why did the Indian Navy sign the contracts for these when it knows such conditions are embedded in the main contract?
EDIT: cut the reply down to the lines above. Either way i hope it is key influencing a buy of either the Gripen, Eurofighter, Mig-35 or Rafael for the MMRCA.
mattSo is the current p8i better than anything on the market?
It is poor management or purchasing. Why are their no mitigations in place, specially when the indian defense ministry has had bad experience in the past. This is not the first time India fallen victim. Past lessons were not learnt or ignored in exchange for backdoor payments with the cover of itar. These are not small purchases and it seems more than amaturish if the artical is to be believed.
mattIf the contents of the package have changed then India should cancel the deal. It was poor management to have a risk like this in existence but not have any mitigation in place!
mattPentagon Contract Announcement
(Source: US Department of Defense; issued May 21, 2010)
Lockheed Martin Corp., Lockheed Martin Aeronautics, Fort Worth, Texas, was awarded a $325,485,969 contract which will provide for the development, integration and delivery of 35 mid-life upgrade kits for the Foreign Military Sales Pakistan Block 15 F-16A/B aircraft, and 18 retrofit kits for the Block 52 F-16C/D aircraft.
At this time, $121,209,418 has been obligated.
312 AESG/SYK, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, is the contracting activity (FA8615-07-C-6032).
-ends-
Formidable airforce specially with the addition of the J-17 and J-10
mattWhat India plans and what the DRDO delivers are at 180degrees from each other.
Will have to see what the re-structuring does apart from create more management roles that eat up budgets but do not add to the value.
mattUS high-tech arms to India stumble on safeguards
I am not convinced this sounds like hogwash and pressure by certain organisations to push India into signing a deal that basically could hand over sovereignty.
India is not getting the best P-8I because the document isnt signed? Rubbish! if they are not getting the best tech is because they cant afford to pay for it or cant find it any where else in the world.
If after contract signing the US decided to downgrade Avionics on the P-8I and was still asking for the same amount then the person who signed and wrote the contract should be up for review and or removed from position.
Did the IN review the P-8I with the downgraded capability, if yes and it was good enough for the IN and better than anything else on the table then why sign the document? If it wasnt good enough and they needed the higher technology why did they buy the P-8I?
mattOne more thing :- Dr. Kalam says clearly that LM was chosen because of the F-16’s proven record. Ostensibly, the ADA did not like Dassault’s suggestion of a Mirage-esque and Rafale-esque solution, which to quite an extent, were works in progress in 1992.
So, in fact ADA actually played it “safe” on choosing LM than Dassault. Actually, the inclination to choose Dassault was even more given that Tejas’ design was influenced by them. But ADA chose a proven solution over vendor commonality.
—-
Obligatory, you are right, but what I wrote has actually already happened. Gripen-NG / Demo (whatever its called) had to repeat the same trials in India.
France was the safer option in terms of project management. Why. is the ada going to lm time after time even after having experienced delays due to embargo in the past. It’s silly to claim that lm were a safe bet.
mattLooks interesting, are they still using the Ceramic plate lets in BMI resin to provide the armour protection?
It will be interesting to know how much protection that will give from other high calibre guns.
mattThat is not completely logical..
The LCA seems destined to follow the same route as it is run by a branch of the same organisation.
You could argue that if the LCA had met its project goals in terms of cost , time and capability the IAF would not need to buy the Gripen.
How many years have people been waiting for the LCA?
Sign In
