mattRather interesting fabrication; more details what is it for…?
It could be for the superjet as well, looks like a Aluminium honecomb sandwich structure would have imagined most of a fighter structure would be monolythic with very fer regions of honeycomb.
Cant see any vac ports, was this bagged up on a tool for a photo op? Its not uncomman to do things like fake bagging up etc during a photo op or visit.
With a part that size I would expect a lot of vaccuum ports..
mattI am not worried whether the Indians will be able to make the wing skins etc, what concerns me with regards to the use of composite is the availability of the pre-pregs, resins, fibres Z pins that may be currently used on F/A-18 E/F in 20 years time.
Most of the systems currently used are probably already 20 years old and may need to make way for new brands.
I guess the only thing that is a saving grace is that most of the resins now under development or going to be manufactured in China.
India really needs to catch up on the carbon/resin front and set up some Hindustan Composites Ltd .. Kemrock etc are all well and good though, and since literature about their products (carbon fibres) are not available its difficult to say either way.
mattOne of the key things the IAF will expect from the MRCA is to add/upgrade items on it of its own volition. This is something they are very serious about, and one of the reasons why the additional Mission computers were added to the MKI.
Spares – most of the ones (mandatory spares) which account for day to day ops – are expected to be built in India. Thats the most basic reason behind the TOT clause, which 99% of the articles ignore, being focused on things like magic technology etc.
Coming back to upgrades, what the IAF is doing with the MKI points to what it expects from the MRCA as well. It has added the Litening2, EL/OP Radar pod, other new munitions types, and the MKI is also acting as the trials testbed & initial user of the in development Astra BVRAAM. There are several other systems also noted to have been evaluated for the MKI.
The same approach will be taken for whichever MRCA is chosen.
Fair point, but i do not see this being that easy in case of composites.
Anyway your probably correct.
Do you know if in the testing of the MMRCA’s the IAF will get a chance to do wargames against some of the aircraft in the IAF?
mattA good idea to have a few squadrons of CAS aircraft since the RAF has not operated prop-driven CAS aircraft like these since when, the ’50s, ’60s, IDK.
I know it would be a big change for the RAF but when the economy is doing a straight dive from the highest dive board possible and your facing cuts why not use these beautiful little planes to do the CAS type work? Why spend money on fuel guzzlers like Harriers or Eurofighters for theatre areas like Iraq and Afghanistan?
Purchasing these would allow the RAF to keep the Big boys for emergency jobs else where or reduced number as back up for the crop dusters.
Has anyone thought of turning these into UCAVs? It would be great for british industry if the RAF bought some Islanders for CAS role as well!
Would be great for SE development (on the premise the production moves to the isle of wight)
mattMaybe the RAF should buy some of these as well, good way to keep the squadron numbers up.
mattReading this months AFM and other publications it appears that post 2020 the RAF will be down to 8 frontline fast jet squadrons with 3 of those being jointly manned by the RN an allocated to the CVF. This would mean that wiht a 5 squadron force of Typhoons there will not be enough to support deployments and only the CAW with its 2-3 squadrons of F-35s being able to mont any deployment.
Surely this force level is far below critical mass to meet any future planned commitments? Even if the 2 reserve conversion units are given a similtaneous war role, the RAF will become a non-player on the world stage, looking good for PR but with little practical teeth!
Thats the position now, but we have ten years to go till 2020 and by then things may have improved and budgets re approved for larger fleets. Although that would be a fairy tale.
mattI think the IAF can excel at the following activity, and nothing else.
‘Air warriors are becoming businessman’
The Indian Air Force (IAF) has found that a large number of its men are moonlighting in their spare time and turning to trade and business. {And you only found out now ? } In fact, the IAF has sent out a strongly worded letter warning all its officers against such activities and warning them even of harshest steps like being sacked from service if its directive is not followed.
The letter comes from Air Vice Marshal R Sitaraman, in charge of administration who has said that the instances have particularly increased in the last one year to aid monitoring the situation, the Air Vice Marshal has asked for a list of those who have been warned earlier. TIMES NOW have accessed the document written to all the Air Force officers.
It is an internal directive from Air Vice Marshal R Sitaraman dated on 18th August and it notes that the persons subject to Air Force Act, 1950 are not allowed to engage in ‘trade and business activities’. It goes on to say that the IAF head quarters has received a number of reports in the last one year pointing to breach of this rule by officers and warns the officers that such instances will be taken very seriously and stringent disciplinary and administrative action will be taken against those guilty to the extent that personnel found involved in business or trade even after that will be expelled from the IAF. {But why ? Aren’t messrs IAI, Thales, Dassault,etc. the friends of the IAF ? Aren’t the reins of IAF in their able, corporate hands ? }
In fact even the Union Defence Minister AK Antony has not refused the existence of such an attempt to cleanse the Air Force. When asked by TIMES NOW , he stopped just short of accepting the fact that the IAF was aware of its men turning to moonlighting and said that the force is fast in stamping out aberrations, as and when they arise.{ Okaay. Then, um.. how about cancelling Barak NG, LG, II, LRSAM, MRSAM for a start ? And when will these IAF officers begin to liason with DRDO for a change ? }
Reference :-
http://www.timesnow.tv/Air-warriors-are-becoming-businessman/articleshow/4330820.cms
The IAF should be given the right to take away, from pilots found to be guilty, any license or licenses to fly aircraft.
mattIndia is upgrading its Jaguars and Mig 27s locally. It is very much possible that in 30-40 years time (long before it in fact) India will have the ability to upgrade the MRCA birds locally. It is very probably that the production lines of all the aircraft in the MRCA competition will have ended in that time frame. Yes some of the newer designs will be in service with their home countries, but that may amount for nothing in terms of upgrade costs as we are seeing with the Mirage 2000 upgrade deal.
As soon as the production lines and supply to USAF/USN closes the IAF will be held to ransom. All of the IP for any parts would still be kept with the parent companies..
Unless the companies actually set up a production line in India to sell the SH to the developing world I can easily see the cost of spare parts for the SH and F-16 going stupid.
Now also consider that by the time the USAF retires its fleet etc India may possible have its version of the PAK FA. It would financially make no sense to keep the F/A-18 : F-16 flying.
It would be better to buy an aircraft which would have some parts flying some where in the world.
Also to consider with the heavy use of composites on the SH if the production line for the SH closes so will possibly some of the material lines at HEXCEL, Cytec or 3M for those materials. Soon as that happens direct replacements for say wing skins etc becomes difficult.
Its not unkown for some of these suppliers to keep production lines ticking over because of contractual obligations with the US GOV.
mattThese are a great idea, would be great for Afghanistan and Iraq! would probably more cost effective for the Iraqi airforce to buy these for now..
Would be good for pakistans northwest frontier as well..
mattNavy Probing Pay-Off By US Firm, Says Antony
(Source: ddi Indian Government news; issued Oct. 22, 2009)
The [Indian] Navy has ordered a probe into bribery allegations against its officers made in a letter from Meera Shankar, the Indian Ambassador to US, to the Prime Minister’s Office, Defence Minister A K Antony said.
“I can assure you the government will take it (the allegations) seriously. On the Navy’s part, they have already taken it seriously and have started investigation. We will not ignore it,” Antony told reporters on Thursday on the sidelines of the four-day Navy Commanders Conference that began in New Delhi.
Refusing to comment more on Shankar’s letter, the Defence Minister said since it was addressed to someone else, he had not seen or read it so far.
He, however, added that the allegations were not only against the Navy officers, but also against seven other Indian agencies.
Shankar’s May 12 letter to Prime Minister’s Principal Secretary T K A Nair had alleged that an agent of US firm York International Corporation had paid off Rs 61 lakh as bribe to Navy officers between 2000 and 2006 for placing over 200 orders with the global heating and air conditioning firm.
The letter also talks about seven other Indian agencies such as Maharashtra Electricity Board, Indian Railway and Central Insecticides Board officials too having received kickbacks from other US firms.
-ends-
who wants to take bets on if this will go the way of boffors
mattAgreed, India has suffered enough due to misplaced pacifism.
To be honest what a lot of people or what of the new generation dont realise that even the followers of gandhi kept great big spears, lathis and swords if ever the situation required!
My grandads arsenal used to fill a room and he was a staunch Ghandi Supporter, (used to spy for Mahatma Ghandi as i am sure many of our ancestors did in those days!)
As they say the centuries copy each other.
With regards to my comments about MTCR and Congress I was just reflecting that of any government who would try by hook or by crook to give India the reach it requires Congress is not the one. It cares and more often than not has cared more about its external image then that of the security of the country.
mattHypersonic Brahmos – pros and cons
Pros – gives India a missile able to penetrate the most heavy SAM networks with a speed of Mach 6-7
Cons – with a range of 300 km, it still lacks the “range” of a 1000 Km class system
Good enough tho, while the Nirbhay gets ready for longer ranged missions.
Maybe with the older SAM networks but with SAM systems being able to detect track and possibly destroy ballistic missiles I have to wonder how much extra help the mach 6-7 would give the Brahmos.
Feels like the longer range would be better, but I guess India (congress in particular) can not do anything about the MTCR.
P.s. I am not paranoid about any country, I am a realist and have read up enough history to know that when there is a change in power balance there is normally a war and when one nations resources are tight there is normally some form of con-flab with its neighbours. History has proved this again and again, its not paranoia to be prudent and give the due diligence required.
mattAnte, Doby Mick, Zita Aviator – his latest ID, FYI – sure has a lot of time on his hands, re-registering away to glory without a care in the world.
If they cant find a sub, I’d wager they’ll do what they did with the K-15, a pontoon launch.
Surely from a program point of view it would make sense to do the pontoon test as soon as possible and then fix what ever errors pop up (and their will be some minor or major) and correct them so that by the time you have a sub to launch from you have done a bit more development instead of wasting time waiting for the perfect test bed.
With currect ship based systems and ground based radars how much of a draw back is the 300KM range of Brahmos?
mattLol..bored already?heh we have been waiting since 2001..:D
LOL! Some of have been waiting for the MMRCA and LCA between half our age to half our adult age!
Gets a bit boring, only so many way you can compare fuel loads!
They should buy lots of sopwith camels
mattThe above is inaccurate. As far back as 2005, it has been suggested that the management of Tejas must be taken over by the IAF, as ADA’s job is only to innovate and demonstrate the technology. This, the IAF has failed to do which is why the Tejas has been delayed.IN PERSPECTIVE
(Problems of LCA Management)Project Management
In the Western industrialised countries, which have perfected the art of project management, the R&D agencies only design and develop armament technologies. And the military as the user agency has the highest stakes in such weapon development projects because it contributes directly to their operational capabilities. {IAF has never learnt this; all they know is to float global tenders and import.}
From experience I know this is not always true, it is not a given that this has to be for a project to work effectively.
The correct team and mentality may not have been present and this is not to do with western Vs Indian this may be more of a Public company vs a Private company issue. if ADA or even HAL were accountable to share holders things may have changed. its not western vs Indian.
Sign In
