EELightningThe Typhoon is an Interceptor with a good multirole capability . In France , we see it as a M2000 on steroids and I bet that India also sees it as such .
It is not a true multirole fighter (or omnirole) because of its very specific design . I mean that no one would build a true multirole fighter with such landing gear system , using the main wing when heavy external stores should be there.
The Typhoon has always been designed from the start, to be a multi-role aircraft. A/A was initially a priority since the Eurofighter members lacked a proper, credible air defence fighter; Lightning, Tornado F2/F3, Phantom, Mig-29 etc which were more or less outclassed by US and newer Soviet/Russian types, but had plenty of dedicated ground attack aircraft such as; Tornado GR1, Jaguar, Harrier, Buccaneer, Phantom etc etc and so forth. Hence why they focused on the Typhoon’s A/A capabilities while it’s A/G capabilities were to be focused on later on in life.
And ‘urgh’, yes, and I suppose you lot see the Typhoon as Dassault’s 80s technology, too? Yeah, I remember you preached that it was a few months ago, it was laughable then and it still is today. To stay polite, get yourself a clue.
Then , the heavy (wet) hardpoints should not be limited to 1,500kg but be cleared for 2,000kg+ . Also , its 7,500kg max payload clearly show that it wasn ‘t design to bring havoc on far away enemy ground forces (Rafale = 9,500kg , 2 tons more . 2,000l fuel tanks , etc …) .
The Typhoon ‘s range on an AtoG mission “Hi-Lo-Hi” is slightly smaller than the M2000 ‘s range for the same mission.
Can a Mirage 2000 carry 4x 1,000lb class weapons, 6x A/A missiles, 1x LDP with 2x external drop tanks? No need to answer that because I already know the question.
The Typhoon’s ‘wet stations’ are more than capable enough of carrying Paveway III which is a 2,000lb class weapon and capable of Storm Shadow which is a bit over 2,500lb and the Tauras which is considerably heavier. Both latter weapons’ weights from the top of my head. The rest of the Typhoon’s hard points – excluding the four conformal missile hard points and outer missile rails – can easily carry weapons in the 1,000lb class, which has been proved.
There , it shines .
Its aerodynamics also show an Interceptor design , like the M2000 with a similar load.
I am not comparing the Typhoon to a M2000-5…
You sure know how to contradict yourself…
…I only show that both designs are based on the same idea : fly high and fast and kill everything .
Ever since the dawn of the fighter, be it A/A or A/G, it’s succesors have always based the same ideas as of those of their predecessors’, albeit most of the time done differently.
Given both have the amount of missiles on board, what would you chose to be in? No…Silly question, he’s going to say the Mirage 2000 of course because the Typhoon is just a souped up Mirage that is Dassault’s 80’s tech. :rolleyes:
I hate to repeat myself but the Typhoon wasn ‘t built to be a true multirole fighter . France managed to turn the M2000 into a decent and very capable strike-fighter but it has the same shortcomings than the Typhoon . Again , not comparing , just talking about overall design .
Brrr you know what. I’ve got a bit of jet lag, body clock is all to b*ll*cks, caught the flu and sun stroke in Dubai, its 3:40am(ish) here, I’m wide awake but need sleep, gotta be up for work at 7:00am, in for 8:00am, then I have to go through 11 very fine and most wonderful Gibson guitars shipped from the US that cost in the region of £2,000 EACH, tune them all in and make sure they’re in perfect working order which takes great care & attention and of which when, I’m going to be wondering about like a zombie on weed. So no pressure then…
Edit: Read wrong, 4:40am here. Bed time.
…So, why not come up with a list of whatever reasons comparing the “mighty” Mirage 2000 to the Typhoon. Which is blatantly what you’re doing anyway. I’d happily be involved in that discussion. So get cracking.
While I am a big fan of the Typhoon…
Thanks for the laugh.
…its multirole capabilities are nowhere near Rafale ‘s, planned or unplanned.
Let me just comment on that before I wonder off into your world.
The words “nowhere”, “near”, “planned” and “unplanned” or somewhat, curious.
So compared to the Rafale, which is of course a fine bit of kit, I think very high of it, the Typhoon ain’t that close? Well, let me go through a few things, a list of features for the Typhoon that would make it a top end multi-role fighter. Features that are perfectly feasible that have been officially mentioned.
Heres a Typhoon and a list of realistic options: Remember, ‘multi-role’ is the key here.
Examples.
1) 4x Meteor, 2x ASRAAM/IRS-T, 4x 1,000lb LGBs, 1x LDP, 2x 1,000 litre drop tanks.
2) 4x Meteor, 2x ASRAAM/IRS-T, 2x Storm Shadow/Taurus, 4x 1,000lb LGBs, 2x Conformal Fuel Tanks (CFT) 1,500 litres each, 1x LDP.
3) 4x Meteor, 2x ASRAAM/IRS-T, 2x Storm Shadow/Taurus, 2x 1,000lb LGBs, 2x Brimstone (total of six missiles), 1x LDP, 2x 1,500 litre CFTs.
4) 4x Meteor, 4x ASRAAM/IRS-T, 2x Storm Shadow/Taurus, 2x 1,000lb LGBs, 1x LDP, 2x 1,500 litre CFTs.
5) 4x Meteor, 2x ASRAAM/IRS-T, 4x Brimstone (total of 12 missiles), 3x 1,000 litre external drop tanks, 2x 1,500 litre CFTs. (Excluding internal: 6,000 litres of fuel with this weapons load, not bad at all.)
6) 6x Meteor, 2x ASRAAM/IRS-T, 2x Storm Shadow/Taurus, 2x 1,500 litre CFTs, 1x 1,000 litre external drop tank.
7) 6x Meteor, 2x ASRAAM/IRS-T, 2x Storm Shadow/Taurus, 1x 1,000 litre external drop tank, 2x 1,500 litre CFTs.
All with 27mm cannon. I’m aware I missed out weapons such as the Paveway IV, Pilum, anti-ship missiles etc, but they were just examples.
Those are just a few. Granted, weight and fuel might have to be taken into consideration due to max take-off weight etc. Neverless, those possibilities are nothing to be sniffed at.
EELightningIs the opening of the bids going to be a public ceremony with lots of fanfare, a ministerial speech etc? Or will it be a low key affair behind closed office doors? If Dassault and Eurofighter representatives are going to be there, they presumably know at what time the bids are to be opened. Is this in the public domain?
I think it might be a low(ish) key affair. Various Indian officials might announce in a press conference and the winner will announce via their website or something I suspect. I think we’ll have to wait for a few more weeks if I’m honest.
EELightningI will eat a GBU 12 if Typhoon wins in Japan.
Coming from a chap that bet a single engined fighter would win the Indian MMRCA competition? I fancy the odds.
EELightningWhat I found surprising is not only the slow and late AESA radar development for the typhoon but also the lack of key millstones achieved in turning it in a true multirole platform (cruise missiles, anti-ship, recce, heavy bombs etc…)
A part from vague declarations and blurred time schedule horizon it is hard to spot the willingness of the partner nations in that field.
Considering the very slow process of developing multirole capabilities and an AESA radar what to think about more exotic upgrades like CFT, TVC or naval version ? A special mention to the CFT issue which is an imperative to become a more effective strike fighter due to the poor weapon & external fuel layout.
Very fair and valid points you make there, eagle1, and I would perfectly agree with you to certain extent, although I don’t agree with you (with respect of course) that it has poor weapon & external fuel layout. Even in it’s current form 2x ASRAAM, 4x AMRAAM, 4x Paveway II, 1x LDP, 2x external drop tanks is quite an impressive load to admire. Theres not too many aircraft that can carry such a wide range wrt numbers is concerned.
All this hampers Typhoon credibility in the competition in my opinion. Especially when you know that partner nation see this deal as a way to cancel some of their own orders. Overall not very appealing program to join due to lack of momentum.
I wouldn’t be too sure that these would hamper Typhoon’s credibilty in the competition, or, not in ‘this particular competition anyway. Concerning the Eurofighter partner’s “commitments”, I believe they’re willing to upgrade & enhance their Typhoon to a way that suites them. The problem is however is funds, and this is shown throughout Europe with many military programmes, not just the Eurofighter programme. Because of the economy crisis in Europe, this is one of the reasons why the four consortium members’ governments are fully behind the Typhoon bid in India, and in fact elsewhere, & it’s not just a “bail-out” for Eurofighter GmbH as many people believe it to be. Personally, I see it as a mere stepping stone for EADS to get their so-called “third pilar” set up in India hence why they’re leading the way for the Typhoon in this particular competition. Some members might want to cancel some of their Typhoon orders but one could look at this in a different perspective. IMO off loading surplus Typhoons to India could well be a good thing and be possibly offered at a discount price, who knows. The RAF’s Tranche 1s spring to my mind.
Regarding Typhoon’s capabilities; yes they have taken time to be brought up to speed and at the moment Captor-E is in full development, the RAF are going ahead with integrating Paveway IV, Brimstone, Storm Shadow and Meteor, the Luftwaffe are doing the same with Pilum etc all to be in operational service by 2015 or sooner and suspiciously close to or spot on of when India are due to take delivery of their initial batch. And the Eurofighter consortium has already started to outline parts of it’s industrial offering to India and have already set up a military R&D centre in Bangolore which will focus on avionics systems, aircraft self-protection systems, radar, engineering IT, 3D visual simulation, aerospace modeling and simulation etc. So theres no lack of commitment from the Typhoon camp.
Another thing worth noting is R&D for India. As we know India are very keen on this and I believe this is a requirement for the MMRCA and ironically, Eurofighter GmbH have seemed to fall on their feet in this area.
EELightningIt is funny to think that UAE,INDIA and Switzerland should take their decision is approx the same time frame (possibly). I know that we can always be surprised but it would be quite extraordinary if ever these three countries make their decision in the same month or week…After all these years stars might be at last favourable for the rafale (or not:D)
Same for the Typhoon with India, Japan, Malaysia etc.
EELightningBy the Rafale 🙂
It, and the F-16, Gripen, Su-30MKI too I’m sure and the Tornado F3 (Yes you heard it correct the first time, Tornado F3) have scored simulated kills against the Typhoon. Those are the ones that we know of, at least. What does it prove? Well its proves it can be beaten and anyone else, Eurofighter GmbH and myself have never claimed it can’t be beaten and the same goes for the Rafale. I would most certainly bet on the Typhoon’s simulated kill ratio is in it’s favour by a great margin despite simulated kills being scored against it. And I don’t suppose the Rafale’s simulated kill ratio is 100% in it’s favour.
In all other A2A areas, “typhoon never” managed to prove any superiority so far. Which doesn’t mean it is bad.
Oh really? Have you got a list of results of every single Typhoon deployment in A/A engagements taken place at every altitudes other than high to prove this? No, I very much doubt that you don’t for some odd reason.
Repeat after me : not being superior to the Rafale in some A2A missions is not being bad.
Where have I said the Typhoon is superior in every single area wrt A/A?
Why ? because the Rafale is one of the deadliest A2A opponent today despite all the eurofighter gmbh propaganda which used to present it as an average/poor A2A fighter only good as a bomb truck.
Again, like Scorpion82 asked, show us a single source showing Eurofighter GmbH stating it’s only good as a bomb truck.
That’s your problem in fact, you can’t accept the fact that the Rafale might be supérior to the Typhoon during an A2A engagement because you have been told during 15 years that the Rafale was not a worthy A2A fighter.
What “fact”? Show any of my “facts” where I’ve stated the Typhoon to be 100% superior to the Rafale. I’ve got well over a 1,000 posts to search through so best of luck digging through although you’ll be wasting your time because the simple fact of the matter is, I havent claimed anything such as what you state. But feel free to have a look anyway. I’m waiting…
Like so many Rafale supporters, your problem is is that you can’t take the slightest, merest criticism from anyone wrt the Rafale.
Well, welcome to reality.
No thanks, I’d happily stay in real world reality.
EELightningThis is why I believe the Rafale has won the race …
Because of the radar alone? I wouldn’t be too optimistic about that…
Even with the Captor-E being ready by 2015, I’m sure “things” can be ironed out by time Indian pilots are fully up to speed, of which by when? Well they ain’t going to be fully combat ready ‘IN’ 2015.
EELightningDo you really want to compare the scan speed and beam agility of the PESA RBE-2 to the MSA captor ?
The factor is something around 100 to 1 or so
In TWS mode, the mode of choice for BVR engagement with maximum SA, the captor scan volume and range is reduced quite a bit, whereas the RBE-2 can work at its full potential.
Typhoon suporters always like to point out the lower raw range of the RBE-2, forgeting all the advadtages brought by the electronic scaning technology : far better TWS scan volume, less track loss, better LPI capability, 3 key feature during a BVR engagment.
To be perfectly honest with you I’ve lost touch with keeping up with the Captor-M and PESA RBE-2 so my memory is rather shady of both’s capabilities. However since we both don’t know the full “Ins ‘n’ outs” of both these radars, especially the likes of LPI capability, max SA and other abilities wrt tracking modes & what not its quite a job to discuss it for any great length of time and effort. At least on here it is anyway. So since you’re the one that brought this up, how about you make a new thread about it and at least have a dedicated, proper discussion about? I’m game after a little homework & reminders and I’m sure others will be interested to discuss such a topic, too.
So how about it? If one keeps it a flame proof thread?
Eurofighter Gmbh in various publications, official power points and web sites
Proved wrong by whom I mean’t.
better at intercepting high altitude soviet bombers.
Unfortunatetly for the typhoon this this not the only air threat around.
So what you’re saying, the Typhoon is only good for – at intercepting high altitude Soviet ‘Bombers’ and nothing much else? Basically possibly doing a slightly better job than the Tornado F3?
or let’s talk about the Typhoon A2A efficiency with an AESA radar when it will actually get it.
Talk about it today, tomorrow, 10 years time, lend Doctor Who’s Tardis to go back in time to discuss the Captor-E, whatever. No matter when we talk about it it’s still going to have more TR modules, bigger array, wider field of regard and a bigger nose area to slot it into.
So the typhoon can have its repositionner but the Rafale can’t have its side antennas ?
again, let’s talk about all those upgrades when they will be there (do you want to bet what plane will get them first ?)
Lend my tool kit (that I seldom use) to take the Repositioner off if you like? And as I said just above. I know which one will get an AESA first so no need. Want to bet on which will get Meteor, Brimstone, HMSS first?
again good to intercept high altitude air threats, not so good to deal with low altitude intruders.
Also, what I said above about high altitude intercepts. Is it still only good for intercepting high altitude ‘Bombers’? Or has it somewhat improved since I last wrote above…
Not so good with low altitude intruders? Even with HMSS, PIRATE etc onboard?
BTW, very high altitude cruising does have drawbacks regarding detection range. You are easier to detect in both the IR and EM spectrum from below and your radar has to deal with the ground clutter.
Oh dear, Eurofighter GmbH & Lockheed Martin with their F-22 too for that matter, have made a bit of a balls-up of designing an aircraft designed to fight at such altitudes. And radars have come along way since the likes of the Blue Vixen that suffered when ground clutter was taken into consideration.
Did i say something on those systems ? I think not.
Did I start this discussion about both aircrafts abilities in A/A? I think not.
All those “reasons” looks like poor excuses that are difficult to swallow after all the noise made by eurofighter Gmbh about the typhoon multirole capabilities since the last 3 years.
All those reasons are credible, believe them if you want but they played their part rather significantly. And what noises do you think Eurofighter GmbH to make? They do like any other manufacturer do. Thats promote their product.
No, I just want lies written in the press to be corrected.
The Telegraph article says that the Typhoon campaign in Libya is the factor that make it leads the MMRCA contest. That is simply wrong.
It give the impression to the reader that the Typhoon has outperformed the Rafale in Libya which is false by an enormous margin.
Now you know how many Typhoon supporters feel when such journos and blogests post nonsense about the Typhoon. You’ve posted such blogs about the Typhoon yourself, haven’t you not?
The Telegraph’s report about the Typhoon over Libya is somehwhat, exaggerated, just like some French reports about the Rafale in the past. However, limited capabilities or not, the Typhoon does deserve credit.
irrelevant to the debate unless the typhoon destroyed at least one of these tagets
Did it ?
Irrelevant debate anyway since ‘numbers’ aren’t a big deal. Otherwise the Tornado would be the one to crown.
EELightning@BW,
Truest words you’ve ever spoken since Satan knows when. However, I thought it was UK/French (no particular order) led despite the numbers. You lot sound like the Yanks, take all the credit, typical. 😉 😀
EELightningNo, but it will be fully mature, debugged and merged with all the other systems.
In a word ready to be used to its full potential by the Indian Air Force.
And the IAF ain’t going to be taking delivery until 2015 onwards, plenty of time from now until then for both aircraft’s systems to mature, even now.
EELightningAs we speak today, it is also more advanced in A2A. the slight kinetic advandage that the Typhoon might have does not compensate for it’s slow radar scaning/agility, average RCS/IR signature management and long range target identification. Not to mention the lack of IIR medium range A2A missile.
Really? Can you back those up with sufficiant, reliable data or is it just hot air?
The assertion spread during 15 years that the typhoon was the 2nd best (in A2A) only to the F-22 has proven to be wrong.
Who by?
Ok, It might be a better raw cold war bomber interceptor…but as far as the whole spectrum of A2A missions is concerned it doesn’t show anything special facing the Rafale (quite the contrary in fact).
Wrt the bold bit, I’m not quite sure what you mean, is it better or isn’t it? The rest, well lets be fair for both fighters & give them AESA radars that will be integrated for both of them to make it more clear.
Typhoon’s Captor-E: 1,400+ TR modules, array fitted to a ‘Repositioner’ giving it a much wider feild of regard, 220 degrees. Typhoon also has a bigger nose area.
Rafale’s RBE2-AA: IIRC(? – corrections welcome) around 1000 TR modules, not fitted to a ‘Repositioner’ giving it a much lower WFoR than the Captor-E and a much smaller radar in general due to the limited small size of Rafale’s nose area.
In terms of performance; at much higher altitudes it’s no secret that the Typhoon is regarded one of the best in these regimes of which its not quite the case with Rafale if recent reports are anything to go by, however thats not to say the latter is a slouch.
Concerning systems such as DASS and SPECTRA; well since these systems are very classified and very little is known about these its next to impossible to define anything. I understand that in the RAF at least, DASS is a “We DO NOT talk about this” subject, and I’m sure its the same for SPECTRA’s case in France.
So yes, overall I would honestly say the Typhoon does show something special over the Rafale in this area. But of course you’re going to disagree with me. So I don’t know why we’re discussing this. *Shrugs*
Anyway, I wasn’t questioning anything wrt Rafale’s, and Typhoon’s too for that matter, A/A capabilities.
What does it have to do with the libyan operation ?
Quite a bit since that article and many Rafale supporters, (yourself included) have in the past critizised the Typhoon for something the Rafale suffered the same. Just merely pointing it out. Plenty of proof & I can get if you want.
BTW, we are still waiting for the Typhoon to show its wings in Afghanistan but I’m affraid that we will never see that miracle happen. 300 typhoon delivered to 4 countries that are actually involved in Afghanistan for 10 years and none of them managed to send a single Typhoon over there.
Do you know the reasons why they’re not operating over Afghanistan? Germany, Italy and Spain’s contribution over Afghanistan in the past 10 years wrt to fixed wing fighters, or bombers in this case, have been quite little, the Luftwaffe deployed Tornados for recce roles I remember. The RAF on the other hand have had quite a significant presence in Afghanistan wrt to fixed wing fighter/bombers with the Harrier GR7/9 and now currently with Tornado GR4. RAF Typhoons were due to be deployed to Afghanistan in 2008/9 but was soon called off because RAF Typhoon crews were tasked to help train Saudi Typhoon crews in the UK. Because of that, there were not enough RAF Typhoons and pilots to train future Saudi pilots, operate QRA/CAP sorties over the UK, The Falklands, parts of Europe and be deployed to Afghanistan. One of them had to be dropped and it was the deployment to Afghanistan. It wasn’t because the Typhoons couldn’t perform CAS roles, it was small numbers.
In 2011, in Libya, the gap with the Typhoon is even more huge. The Rafale was able to perform every missions from day one (day -21 some might even say) SWEEP, SEAD, CAS, interdiction, stand off strike, recce, elint, b-b refueling.
Yes, and weldone to it. I’ve never stated it couldn’t do anything such as those and never claimed the Typhoon to be superior in A/G, which it isn’t…Not yet anyway.
Hopefully the Libyan navy stayed in the ports ortherwise the Rafale would have demonstrated how deadly the last version of the exocet is.
Not to worry, RAF Typhoons got some of those in their harbours. 😉
Those articles published in the UK press spreading the idea that the Typhoon did more or as well as the Rafale in Libya are simply big lies.
The Rafale done the jobs it had to do as did the Typhoon. But every now and again all parties print rubbish to giggle at, including from the French side.
The fact is that the Rafale flew 2000 sorties, almost all multirole, while the Typhoon flew only 600 many of them being pure A2A sorties (with nothing to shoot at).
Italian Typhoons performed purely A/A missions as did the RAF’s initally, wasn’t their fault the Gaddafi’s pilots didn’t want to play. Whats a greater victory, shooting them down or keeping them on the ground? I’d say the latter. And yes, people keep saying how many sorties the Rafale flew, what do you want, a medal? You wouldn’t expect anything less of them and you wouldn’t expect less of the Typhoon with it’s limited capabilities. They got tasked to do a job and done it well.
Sorry but for a plane developped at the same time as the Rafale, by 4 countries, the actual available capabilities in 2011 are very very desapointing.
Yet again, no one is saying the Typhoon is superior to the Rafale wrt A/G capabilities (yet), and I would happily agree with you that France has done very well indeed to get the Rafale up to speed with it’s capabilities. I take my hat off to it and credit is due where its due. But one has to take into consideration of many factors of why the Typhoon hasn’t reached more of it’s potential to date. But I suspect you’re not going to bother.
That’s nice but again that’s only a tiny portion of the targets destroyed by the Rafale fleet.
And the past 20+ years the FAF/Navy has destroyed a tiny portion through various conflicts when compared the RAF. The US even more so than ours put together. Big deal.
EELightningI bet that raven_group is british, not french. As he’s the one who started that mess, why do you distort reality by accusing the froggs ?
French bashing at its best, maybe ? :rolleyes:
Doesn’t seem to stop some French members from boasting that their air force & navy achieved more over Libya than the Brits, on here and on other forums. Personally I couldn’t give a toss what they say. In reality I would bet on French pilots & other French crew not giving a toss if they “out-gunned” the Brits and vice-verca. Just as long as both were sent out to do the job and achieved it & back home safe for tea, wine & medals. Thats all that matters, doesn’t not? Just a pity some narrow-minded people didn’t look at it the same way. :rolleyes:
EELightningWhat of it? Like I say, doesn’t mean it’ll be chosen and I’d be very surprised if it does. And I would rather go for the Rafale over the F-35 for the IN. At the moment I would for sure anyway.
“Omnirole” Rafale Steals Lead Over Eurofighter Typhoon in Libyan Operations
Yes, and? Theres no secret that the Rafale is more up to date in A/G than the Typhoon is, the Tornado GR4 is more superior than the Typhoon in this role, at the moment it must be said.
Mind, I do admire those words from that article. The words and meanings; ‘Hypocrisy’ and ‘Knowledge’ springs to mind.
“the Eurofighter Typhoon provided intelligence through its targeting pods.”
So, they didn’t drop Paveway IIs via it’s targeting pods then didn’t they?
“In contrast, the UK Air Force deployed the Typhoon in a supporting role to its older generation aircraft, the Tornado.”
Oh, just like the Mirage did for the Rafale over Afghanistan? Of course.
“In separate briefings, U.K. officials have been quoted as saying that the Typhoon flew 600 combat missions but surprisingly details of its offensive role in terms of enemy targets engaged have not been forthcoming”
Buildings, armour, satelite/radar & communication systems, anti-aircraft batteries, weapons depots, other various vehicles, ships, boats etc. :rolleyes:
“There has been no mention of what weapons the Typhoon carried.”
Really… :rolleyes:
“A Dassault executive who did not wish to be identified said that the Eurofighter Typhoon which is clearly not meant for a multi-mission role played at best a supporting role in the Libyan operations.”
Again, just like the Rafale did to the Mirage in Afghanistan? No wonder he/she didn’t want to be identified. They obviously came across Typhoon’s footage via it’s targeting pod on the RAF/MoD website.
EELightningI’m not quite sure why theres such…”vs” comparisions going between the British & French? Or is it because the French just like to boast that they might have flown more sorties, dropped more bombs, fired more missiles & bullets which seems to be the case here. What does it really matter if they did? So what, the British have flown more sorties, fired more missiles, dropped more bombs etc in past 20+ years that makes the overall French contribution in the same time period look like a couple of fleas having a ‘Light Your Fart Competition’. Big deal.
EELightningWell they (IN) have thought about it sent the RFI and have seen the presentations. 😀
I’ve been having talks with Ibanez’s boffins & officials discussing if they could custom build me a one-off custom (to me) 9-string guitar…Still doesn’t mean I’m going to get it.
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