EELightningI think the surprise is that its been quite a while since the French have officially mentioned anything to the public concerning the Indian MMRCA competition…Too bad its nothing new & what we don’t already know…
Also, theres always reports of their advantage being the Mirage upgrade…Its true but not a final decision maker IMO. I’m really surprised they aren’t trying harder in promoting the Rafale through various sources & all.
EELightning^ Typhoon is being offered to UAE? I thought that was Rafale territory.. but then again.. its been how many years now and we still haven’t seen them succeed in getting a firm contract.
At the IDEX Show in Abu Dhabi in February this year, Eurofighter GmbH had on display various artists impressions of Typhoon 2020s in UAEAF colour schemes & reports suggested that these particular variants were being proposed, as well as to other air forces in the region.
I do not have the full details of the British offer but it goes something like this. Apparently if we were to buy 10 Tranche 3 Typhoons, we will get some 20 or so Tranche 1 Typhoons (ex-RAF) for free. Well, almost for free, we need to pay to fit Malaysian specific items like radios and such, support, training and ordnance but it is much,much cheaper than getting 20 brand new Tranche 3s.
For free?…
That sounds a bit, far fetched. I don’t get how that would work, well maybe a little…but still. If the RMAF don’t want anything too “overkill” then maybe it’d make sense to purchase Typhoon T1s or even T2s with Captor…But if they also want Tranche 3s then surely they’re going to have to update the T1s or T2s to T3 at some point in the future to keep them up to date. Might as well just go for the Tranche 3, wouldn’t that make more sense or am I reading this the wrong way?
Of course, the French could copy the British proposal and offer us ex-French Air Force Rafales and new ones but I have not heard about that, yet. Since the US Navy cannot get enough Super Hornets to go around with, Boeing cannot offer such a deal. And as for the Gripen, unless Saab raided the Swedish Air Force stocks, a similar deal cannot be offered.
I don’t believe the French/Dassault could do that. They seem rather happy with their Rafales so I believe they’d be reluctant to part with them, especially for “free”, and they aren’t really flying off the production lines at a fair old lick – which drives up the price of the aircraft, so, a big ‘no-no’ from them with that option I think.
EELightninghttp://www.malaysiandefence.com/?p=1715
PETALING JAYA: BAE Systems on Tuesday hold a presentation for the media on the Eurofighter Typhoon. As expected not much was revealed about the exact specifications of the proposed RMAF Typhoon but according to its Typhoon director Malaysia Ian Malin, the aircraft for RMAF will have the same specifications as for RAF planes.
The Typhoon for RMAF will be primarily single seaters as the developers insisted that it had been designed from the scratch to be a world beater.
The Eurofighter consortium, according to Ian will continue to develop the Typhoon to ensure its relevance well into the future. Ian is the Head of Export for Typhoon for BAE Systems operating out of Warton in the UK but he will be here for 3 weeks every month to manage the programme for Malaysia.
More on this later, as more information become available. BTW, the Rafales will be definitely be here for LIMA although BAE Systems has yet to confirm the same for Typhoon. They are working hard on it so I guess you will be able to see them in action over Langkawi this December.
Now we will wait for the response from then folks from Seattle and St Louis.
No statement that the RMAF will or will not get that proposed upgraded Typhoon.. unless the RAF gets them too
Nice find, J-20 Hotdog.
Thats interesting, same spec as RAF Typhoons? So I presume they mean Tranche 3s and not the 2020 variant & able to operate with Storm Shadow, Brimstone, Paveway II, IV, Meteor, ASRAAM, BAE Systems HMSS, Captor-E etc.
Come to think of it; I mentioned a few posts ago that the ‘2020’ is being proposed to a few countries – Oman, UAE, Turkey etc but don’t remember Malaysia being one of them.
BTW BAE Systems recently released this page: http://www.baesystems.com/malaysia
EELightningOh please get a clue for goodness sake, I’ve never, EVER came across any Americans thats been disrespectful to my country, not on this forum anyway. And just because I question some American products doesn’t make me “Anti-American”! So just drop it!
Now, bury the hatchet & move on yes? Okay, so where were we?
EELightning“Anti-American”? What on earth are you on about? Just because I spoke up about a couple of American aircraft makes me “Anti-American”, does it? Get a grip & stop being silly! Yes, I’m aware that it was an Australian that said the F-15SG would “beat” a Typhoon, (Oh btw, by your standards does that make him “Anti-European” then?) yet you were the one that brought up the J-10…for whatever reason…
Give it a rest…
Back on topic by any chance? :rolleyes:
EELightningno, but you sure love participating in them 😉
You sure love starting them…
no, the J-10 was the only one missing from your extensive list.
…And you brought up the J-10, not me or anybody else. 😉
Typhoon & Rafale are too expensive for Malaysia right now.Remember my words, We will get the Super Hornet instead.It’s the cheapest & feasible option excluding the gripen ( RMAF didnt prefer single engine option) & Su-35
I remember a certain Scooter saying more or less the same thing about the Indian MMRCA competition…You’re not him are you?
And if they’re too expensive then why are Malasyia looking at them?
EELightningOkaaay, and?…
…What makes you think theres no “5th Gen” (Urgh this “Gen” thing…) European manned projects in the works?…
Of course theres nothing mentioned as of yet but that doesn’t mean there isn’t some boffins in white coats making blue prints deep under European ground.
EELightning…he sees the F-35 as the deathnell of the European fighter production capability.
I wouldn’t think so, not now anyway. As I’m sure you know theres two European multi-role fighters in the Indian MMRCA competition, both are looking at a bright future ahead, one of which quite a bit more, i.e. the winner, but thats not say the other isn’t going to do well. If the final two were of US products he might have a point.
EELightningWith the F-35 programme being so…(How can I put this without getting flak?)…troubled, say. How can Bill Sweetman say all is well every time he writes up about it? Of course this programme has done well in a lot of areas & achieved some milestones & deserves credit for it, but by heck its in a bit of a faff right now I’m sure some of it’s supporters will agree…Or maybe not.
When one speaks out about a particular product and the “victim” of it bites back & reprimands the “attacker”, well, its a case of ‘the truth hurts, does it not?’
But like I say, credits due where its due & a clip round the ear hole where it isn’t.
EELightningso what if the Malaysians did? hmm i dunno perhaps its because the topic is called MMRCA for Malaysia?
Is that aircraft in the competition? Eh no it ain’t, so it’s hardly a matter.
don’t tell me you’re only posting here to write Typhoon vs F-15/F-22/F-35 posts.. although I wouldn’t be surprised 😮
I’d rather talk about the competition itself, but hey I’m not the one starting these pathetic versus discussions…Any other aircraft you want to add that might be comparable to the Typhoon?… :rolleyes:
EELightningOk People who don’t buy into generation ****.
1. EFLightning, many Euro fans & certain defense journos/editors.
People who buy into generation ****.
1. LM, Boeing. US government and allied militaries.
2. Russians.
3. Chinese who call it fourth generation but acknowledges its a gneration leap.
4.Indians, Japanese, Koreans who all consider their stealthy designs to be next generation.
Not even an argument really..
As for multirole the F 35 was always int to be multirole, the sheer number of types its going to replace is a testament to that.
Oh you got the letter ‘F’ in place of an ‘E’ there, nice touch, welldone, Mr. 10cc. :rolleyes:
I’m not the only one around here that thinks this so-called “4th, 5th Gen” – whatever you want to call it – is a load of marketing nonsense. Every single maker of military aircraft uses it at some point & it’s basically just to promote their products. Deep down even they know that. A certain Enzo Casolini even said so.
At the end of the day its just something some people might want to believe and use, on the other hand some just think its marketing, I believe in the latter.
hm numbers and cheaper to purchase and maintain?
Why, is the F-22 cheaper? Last time I heard it wasn’t & I doubt the F-35 would be much cheaper than even that due to much reported price concerns, some countries cutting numbers, not actually putting an order in for a fixed number yet and especially where the US/LM aren’t giving them much of an idea of the actual price of the blasted things. Sweet…
what if the Malaysians, in a surprise move, went for J-10Bs. The PLAAF fans are saying it has a canted AESA or PESA, and comparable to the Typhoon.
So what if the Malaysians did? And what of it?…Is it comparable to the Typhoon? Good for them if it is.
Why not just open a ‘Hotdog’s Typhoon VS xyz’ thread, thats what you’re trying to do, ain’t it? 😉
EELightningso is the 2020 variant supposed to come out in 2020?
No, I don’t believe that numbering is linked to the actual year. One could maybe say its a Tranche 4(?), simply put, a Typhoon T3 fitted with CFTs, TVNs and a few more electronics, enhanced GPS, MIDS, IFF etc. Its whats on offer to UAE, Oman, Qatar, Turkey and most certainly for Malaysia and Japan & quite possibly for India too – maybe for a little later for the latter though, who knows.
Yes Rafale & Gripen & Every other fourth generation fighter. They may be slightly superior but nothing like an F-22/F-35/T-50/J-20.
Not sure about the T-50 & J-20, too early to tell as of yet. But the F-22 & F-35 seem to be heavily sided to a particular role; A/A for the F-22 & A/G for the F-35…Oh and with a silly price tag & one of which is grounded due to a “little” fault…Ooops.
In the real world, would you want something like those two or something more versatile in a number areas (more multi-role) thats cheaper to purchase, maintain, update etc?
I know what I’d go for and I don’t buy into this “generation” sh!te.
EELightningthe F-15SE was just a random example, don’t need to be strict with it.. it was a point of comparing grapes and raisins. the Eurofighter Triple E Lightning is pushing, does not exist yet because as you said.. its not fully integrated.. you can argue it’llb e ready next year or in five years or ten.. but that’s then.. Eurofighter today has no AESA and no Meteor and the avionics suite of the F-15SG is superior for the time being despite the old air frame.
Really, the SE doesn’t exist either does it, well, theres 1 laying about somewhere but woopy-doo. And when will that be operational, if ever? I very much doubt before the Typhoon gets AESA, Meteor, Brimstone, Storm Shadow, Pilum, Paveway IV and Superman’s cape. The latter a bit of a long shot… 😀 )
Anyway, if Malaysia selects the Typhoon it’s not going to be variant thats operating now, it’d be the Tranche 3 or even the ‘2020’ variant thats been proposed to other countries. Of course, the SG IS superior in areas where the Typhoon lacks, I agree. But I wouldn’t bet on it being so for much longer.
Whatever advantage the typhoon has over latest gen Flanker/Eagle is minimal, it is not a ‘generational gap’. Most of the advantage lies with the missile, if both have the AMRAAM I won’t be surprised if the SE came out tops.
Same for Rafale & Gripen then?…
Missiles aren’t the only thing(s) that would be an advantage, airframe, superior supersonic performance, AESA fitted to a Repositioner & other electronics and gadets such as TRDs’ would play their part too. And anyway, the Typhoon won’t be operating with AMRAAM for long now anyway so it hardly matters.
EF Fanboys Strong!
I bet the Polish Air Force wouldn’t mind a few though, eh? l)
AIM-9X is as capable as AIM-132 or IRIS-T (all of them were designed to replace legacy AIM-9).
Can it at least match the range of the ASRAAM?
F-15SG has even better T/W.
Can it match the performance of the Typhoon, and does it the SG have better aerodynamic airframe? No and, ehmmmmm? Nope!
Ta-ta
EELightningbut your Typhoon does not exist yet. it only has captor and schmoots AMRAAMs. its a bit unfair to put a future variant versus a current one..
what if some one wanted to say.. F-15 Stealth Eagle is stealthier, has new ramjet AMRAAM, blah blah against Typhoon?
He said a Typhoon with AESA, those two coupled together don’t exist operationally either so why not throw in a few more things such as Meteor? Or is that unfair?
What about the F-15SE? To me it’s just a jumped up SG probably with a few more electronic gadgets than its brother. Oh and a couple of aerodynamic wardrobes to house its AMRAAMs & to make it “stealthy” as an F-35, a claim later dropped by Boeing.
EELightningChairman of the Supervisory Board of Eurofighter GmbH and CEO Cassidian Air Systems, Bernhard Gerwert gives talks of partnerships, security, international collaborations, industrial benefits to India during Aero India 2011:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6WSi8eTmrY
Very interesting.
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