i cant imagine the tornado’s being retired before the F-35 is in place to be honest.

I don’t know like. A lot of people thought the same about the Harrier GR9s, myself included. And since now that the RAF’s Typhoons are/will be integrating more weapons as well as other software upgrades etc in the next 3-4 years, it could be a possibility, not to mention RAF Leuchers and RAF Lossiemouth could be closing down, too. Personally I for one do hope that the Tornado stays in service until the end of its planned out of service date, its been a good mate to the RAF.

also are there any plans to increase the thrust/efficiency of the EJ2000?

Not that I know of, the only upgrade I know about for the engine itself is the TVN of which is said that it improves efficiency by a small percentage. However, Eurofighter do state that the EJ200 engines have a 15% growth potential – whether this includes the TVN I’m not too sure. They also state that the engine could increase power up to 30% with futher upgrades etc. As it is, I don’t believe the Typhoon needs an increase in thrust.

Here’s a pretty nice video from Neuburg AB with a lot of aircraft being shown, including the Polish MiG-29s on their way back home from Albacete and some training for the 50 years celebration of JG 74 as well as operational flying from the resident Eurofighters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_EBYkMjWTw

Thanks, Scorpion82. Nice video & liking the Typhoon’s fin. Can’t wait for when the Luftwaffe give one of their Typhoons a makeover with the metal ripped away exposing a Tiger…Thingy. Whats it called? *can’t think now – hard day at work*, I’m sure you know what I mean? Any chance you could get onto them about it? 😀

And how much black smoke was coming from those Migs? My goodness!

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/16577C3C_5056_A318_A894115A7C44C36D.wmv

In this video it states the targets were destroyed by a typhoon, what weapons were used?, they seem a bit small for bombs.

cheers

Nah not really. They would’ve been 1000lb Paveway IIs. If you look carefully at around the 15 second mark, you can see two Paveway IIs hitting their targets exactly the same time. Pretty much side by side.

on the 5th apache, how do they get it out to Ocean?

It could be transported to southern Italy via an RAF C-130 or C-17, assembled on site then flown from there to HMS Ocean. I imagine so anyway.

I doubt you would claim that the Eurofighter´s landing gear and hard-points were designed with A/G in mind, even though doing so would not have impacted A/A at all, and would not fundamentally have required any more work to be done (just to be done correctly in the first place).

Sorry, not sure I understand what you mean?…

Incidentally, while Rafale is getting a more powerful engine option and CFTs, Eurofighter MAY get TVC (more chances than Rafale at least in the near-term), which may help keep the odds as they are in high-alt BVR maneuvering. I´m not an expert enough to say how TVC can affect STR though…:confused:

I’m sure TVC would help the Rafale at higher altitudes & at BVR maneuvering, after all if it didn’t they wouldn’t integrate it, thats if this the reason they want to have TVC on the Rafale. If they want the aircraft to maneuver above supersonic speeds theres very little else, if anything at all they can do to achieve this. The Rafale needs an airframe designed to operate in those environments and as far I’m aware of, it doesn’t.

Each have their strength and weaknesses in AtoA, but in AtoG this is another story.

Just put two scalp/strom shadow on them + external fuel and then compare the range… no contest there.

Nic

Well the strengths they both have in A/A are more or less what it says on the tin, so really they’re performing what they’re designed to do in the A/A environment at least. The Rafale is able to hold its own low down while the Typhoon is able to hold its own higher up.

As for A/G, put two Storm Shadows on the Typhoon and its limited to just one drop tank, thus handing the Rafale the advantage in range, I think we all know that. Although, the RAF, at least, are going to be operting Storm Shadows on their Typhoons soon and if they want to have long range then they’re going to have to integrate CFTs sooner or later and IMO, are more than likely to do so. Once they add the CFTs, not only are they freeing up the wet stations for Storm Shadow, they also have at least four other hard points for the likes of Paveway IV etc. So six A/G weapons two of which being cruise missiles and 4000 litres of external fuel. Thats not a bad capability, certainly not bad enough to say ‘no contest there’. It has more potential than some give it credit for.

According to Eurofighter the TVN comes with the Typhoon 2020 variant proposed to the likes of Turkey, Qatar, UAE and Oman amonst other potential buyers. A couple of reliable sources reckon Oman could be the first user of the 2020 variant, maybe indicating that they’re due to sign a contract for a number of Typhoons.

I imagine the work going on with the TVN is pretty much done, its been in development since 1995-6 so now its just a matter of doing some ‘very minor airframe modifications’ and fitting ‘one’ to an aircraft & performing some flight tests, I believe. I say ‘one’ because Eurofighter stated that when the time comes to test the TVN they’ll initially fit one, then two.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Eurofighter also stated that the TVNs can be fitted to a Typhoon “without” any airframe modifications, did they not?

Looking at this picture below I’m not so sure; if you take a look at the area just under the rudder, there looks to be a bit of airframe to take away so the TVNs will have room to maneuver:

Then again maybe the airframe will not need any modifications, if you take a look at the diameter of the TVN it is smaller than the fixed nozzle already fitted to the EJ200, leaving plenty of room for the nozzle to maneuver. So maybe no airframe modifications needed? What do you think?

Very nice image, vishal. Thank you.

I’ve always liked this image, quite possible my top 3 favourite Tiffy images:

I wouldn’t question the RAF’s pilots abilities to fight WVR, as I mentioned earlier they’ve always practiced this even when they lacked a credible WVR fighter, especially during the 90s. Theres stories going about when Jaguars have won against F-15s, in John Peter’s & John Nichol’s book, Team Tornado , one of them mentiond how they got a couple of kills against an F-15 & F-16 and we can’t ignore that the Harrier in RAF service, and of course in RN service, has an impeccable record of standing its ground – records in The Falklands speaks volumes despite the Harrier belonging to the RN, neverless Flt Lt David Morgan was one kill shy of becoming an ace of which he would have done hadn’t his HUD failed just before he was about to make a kill. He was actually an RAF Harrier pilot then went over to fly the FRS-1 for the RN for The Falklands war. I have an old interview of him explaining his encounters during which, IIRC, shot down two of four Argentine Skyhawks, his wingman shot down another and the other got away – the one Flt Lt David Morgan was about to shoot down when his HUD failed. I’ll never forget his words about the pilot in the Skyhawk when he witnessed it drop a bomb on a landing craft full of British troops: “I was very angry, he was going to die, no doubt about!” in the calmest most modest way possible.

I’m going a little off course here, but I think you’ll know what I mean – they certainly don’t lack the abilities in my view. And besides, the PAF pilots might boast their 3 – 0 up, but I’d bet any money they’d quickly change the subject or shut up if they got asked what were the total results against the RAF Typhoons. 😉

If the US hadn’t of been tight as a ducks ar$e in terms ToT and showed a bit of trust & maybe also had some faith in the Indian aerospace industry, then maybe one of their precious aircraft would’ve made the shortlist. Yes, the F-16 Block 60 (a UAEAF one I’d like to point out) would’ve suffered ‘close-in’ due it being a heavier version and of course taking into account the very high temperatures and humidity which would have also affected its overall performance.

The US shot themselves in the foot with this competition, they just put too much faith in themselves – ‘We’re the US of A, you will buy our product!’ They totally underestimated the Indians and the European contenders and they’ve just inadvertently advertised their so-called “superior” F-16 Block 60 is pretty much, more or less cr@p to the UAE…Oh dear.

On a different note:

“In parallel to delivery of aircraft and training devices, BAE Systems, in partnership with the RAF, is also delivering a training programme that will see over 75 IAF pilots trained on the current RAF Hawk fleet at RAF Valley in the UK. Experienced IAF Flying Instructors have also completed conversion training to become instructor pilots on the Hawk – these instructors will train the Indian Air Force’s next generation of frontline pilots. Many of those who have completed the course have returned to India and gone directly onto the IAF’s most sophisticated frontline aircraft – a testament to the skill of the pilots and the training they received during their time at RAF Valley.”

http://www.baesystems.com/India/NewsReleases/india_nr_3/index.htm

If the Typhoon is chosen, one is presuming that the initial IAF Typhoon pilots, at least, could be trained in the UK?

Something to put a spanner in the works…

Tellis: US fighters lost MMRCA contract due to technical faults.

Both US bids for a major Indian Air Force fighter contract lost because of technical faults – not US export control policies or corruption in New Dehli, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace scholar Ashley Tellis said in an interview.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/06/03/357566/tellis-us-fighters-lost-mmrca-contract-due-to-technical.html