EELightningCan you provide a source that says a Typhoon with 4-AMRAAM’s, 2-ASRAAM’s, and just one exteral Fuel Tank. Can out perform a clean F-16 Blk 50 within a WVR Fight. If, so I would be happy to yield my position.:rolleyes:
You provide me a source that says a clean F-16 can outperform a Typhoon with 6 A/A missiles and a drop tank. You’re the one that claimed it couldn’t, first. :rolleyes:
But like I say, Typhoon was designed for WVR fights at, and above supersonic speeds – i.e. with weapons and drop tanks – where as the F-16, was not! It’s a known fact that doesn’t need a source. Common sense.
And @netta, you missed the point.
EELightningSince when have any Americans said this?
Your numerous arguments based on stereotypes and logical fallacies are noted.
Did I say any particular American said that? No I didn’t. I said; “which that’s the impression I get when I hear them babble on about it.”
Cut that little sentance down a little bit and focus on the part that says; “thats the “impression” I get.” It’s clearly that.
Saying that one ‘said something’ and getting ‘their impression’ is quite different.
Fallacies? Well you try having a simple discussion with someone that thinks a Typhoon with a simple A/A load cannot outperform a clean F-16 or F-35, then asking in return; can a F-16 or F-35 keep up with a Typhoon with an A/A load at, and over supersonic speeds as far as raw peformance goes? And not get a reply. One simply does not want to comment about that or simply doesn’t want to believe their favourite product(s) to be shown up. Sorry but, how do you deal with people like that.
EELightningDear sir,
I will laugh out loud if the F-35c is more expensive than the B.
Me too, especially since the Tories had an all mighty pop at Labour for ordering the “more expensive” ‘B’ version a short time ago. Oh dear theres going to be a bit of an argument in the House of Commons quite soon. I wonder if the Tories will make a ‘J-Turn’, (HA! See what I did there? Urgh I thought it was funny) and put an order in for the ‘B’ version…Again…And have more arguments…And get quite boring…. The joys. *yawn*
EELightningBTW That F-16 site has many “real” Fighter Pilots. Unlike the most of the Arm Chair Generals on this Forum. Which, I mean no disrespect. Yet, maybe you should consider your words more carefully.;)
Sorry but, I’ll certainly believe that when I see it. Whatever they are, “real pilots”, “armchair generals”, “magicians that went to Harry Potters school” or whatever, a vast majority of them seem to not want to believe anything else will not come close, let alone better, to their precious ‘F-toy’. Some of the discussions I’ve read on there are just silly and laughable in a rather sad way, to say the least. Nine times out of ten it’s just one-sided fan-boys that won’t take anything agains’t their favourite toy. ‘Mine is better and yours is not, it just is, so deal wth it!’ Thats the impression I get anyway, like from some members on here, (mention no names :D) but hey, not everyone has Common Sense at the end of the day so it makes for amusing reading.
Thats my opinion of it anyway.
Toodle-pip
EELightningOr Leonardo da Vinci or even Otto Lilienthal for that matter…
See my post before your earlier one.
The XP-42 was delivered to the US government for tests in 1939 (after company flight tests), and was scrapped in 1947.
The 1942 date for the all-flying tail installation came from U.S. Fighters by Lloyd Jones (1975).
Fair enough, I stand corrected. But the question I’d like to know is, would the Americans had fitted the all moving tailplane to their own supersonic aeroplane? Because after all, they didn’t know much, if anything, about supersonic flight and neither did the British to a certain extent, but the Brits were well ahead in the game.
The reason I say, ‘their own supersonic aeroplane’ is because, sorry, the Bell-X1 was just an M-51 in disguise.
EELightningOf course you did… :rolleyes:
EELightningJust seen on the BBC news about the Harrier being taken out of service. Sad news, such a shame…
They’ve actually painted a GR9 in the old grey/green/white camoflauge and it looks incredible. I hope they keep that one in particular in flying condition. Keep the memories alive. 🙂
Admiral Sandy Woodward was also on the news, too. He’s putting preasure on the government to reverse the decision. It’d be great if they would but, well we all know what the Tories are like…
Personally, if the budget was an issue, which of course it is, I think I would have let RN keep a few for their carriers, say about 20-25 Harriers and the RAF would have to make do with none, keep the RAF’s for spares, parts etc afterall, they have the Typhoon and Tornado, at least they have something. It would’ve been sensible to keep a hand full for the RN/FAA for another ten years or so IMO.
EELightningOkie dokie, cheers for confirming this. 😉
EELightninghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jR_h2N2LYk
Should explain a lot.
Basically the Yanks stole our idea(s) and claimed it as their own. Nice of them ain’t it. Whats new. :rolleyes:
EELightningI was wondering more about what type goes on what model. I understand there will, or indeed it’s been thought about at least, be two types, 25mm GAU-12 for the US types and the Mauser BK-27 for the UK type? Anything more said about that? Thinking out loud but which model(s) will have the external gun pod, ‘C’? Or?…
EELightning@MSphere,
I tend to agree. But of course, I personally, and I’m sure you are too, am not Yank bashing or anything like that and I don’t want to make this into a bashing thread. It’s trying to explain some things to a majority of them. And as I’m sure you know theres the majority of Europeans, Russians etc like this, too. But it just seems that little bit more difficult to explain something to a Yank, a lot of the time, (don’t anyone get me wrong, not always) it’s just a matter of; ‘Yes, but it just is better because it just is!’
Make no mistake about it, they’re good at what they, but the rest of the world are also good at what they do, too. They don’t always want to believe that.
Must admit though, if you want a giggle, just have a read, especially on the *cough* F-16 website *cough* 😀
But anyway, back on topic I think before we’re lynched. 😀
Actually, really back on topic, has there been anything else about the F-35’s gun pod? I’ve only ever heard it mentioned once or twice but that was ages ago.
EELightningI second that, PhantomII.
A great invention, a great inovation, a great aeroplane and a great loss for the RAF and RN. Retired way too early, the GR9 should have had it’s upgrades for A/A and should have been in service for another 8-10 years. But at least it can bow out of service, (quite literally can do that) with a fantastic record in both A/A and A/G sorties. It, and it’s designers has something to be proud of!
It might not have been the most advanced aircraft, but it was certainly the coolest of the jet age just as the Spitfire was the coolest of the piston engine age.
I don’t really have a particular favourite picture of the Harrier, every one I’ve seen of a Harrier in, I just think WOW! I love the GR3 though, nice, especially with the arctic colours!
It’ll surely be missed, it’s done amazing service and only little, but by heck what a big punch!
EELightningOf course all aircraft manufactures produce outrageous claims, it’s just some tend to take the p*ss a bit.
But hey, at least most of us with common sense know that a little, tiny thing like, all Typhoon variants carrys a gun. Just an example, you know, little thing. Itsy-bitsy, teeny-weeny, Tinkerbell little. Easily missed even if you do know how to do a Google search. :rolleyes:
Ta-ta
EELightningI cannot resist a grin when I see how conveniently the author of the article recategorized the F-22 into “super-stealth” category just to be able to claim the F-35 as “also-stealth”. 😉
Boy, LM would do whatever it takes just to make the F-35 look good. You even need to make it longer, with greater wingspan, bigger tail, two engines and you got the F-22.. 🙂 Using the same logic you get an F-15 from Alpha Jet 🙂
My question is simple: if most fans claim that Russia or Europe can’t make a fighter as good as the F-22 because they lack knowledge and experience, then how come the LM is unable to design the F-35 more stealthy than the F-22? They got superior computing power than before, more experience than before, more advanced stealth techniques than before, more evolved coatings than before – but less steathy design in the end…
I’m not bashing the F-35, or the F-22 for that matter, but the poeple that make it; (“Yeah maaaan it’s the greatest of aaaaall time, yeah! USA! USA!”) of which that’s the impression I get when I hear them babble on about it. *yawn*. When they’re featured on a programe called Future Weapons, I’m guessing you’ve seen it, and say it’s this, that, it can do this and do that and look it can do this, too. Which is fine, they believe in their product and they’re promoting it, nothing wrong with that at all, other countries do the same, although IMO they don’t go over the top.
But It’s quite difficult to take their word for it after you’ve seen both products featured because they clearly state that the F-35 is the best thing since sliced bread, (not in those words obviously but you know what I mean) again, fine, they believe it, their opinion. But later on in another episode they feature the F-22 and ooooh lordy-lordy they pretty much say it’s the best thing since sliced bread without going into much detail apart from saying they can perform the same roles, pretty much…Yeah, okay goodnight, lets see whats on the other side, please, yes, TopGear is on, something that is actually mean’t to be funny.
I do love the LM promotion team though, they sure know how to make people giggle smetimes.
Because the F-35 had to be cheaper and exportable. The F-35 has always been stealthy, so I don’t even know why we’re having a discussion about that.
Well, cheaper than the F-22 and not much else, or if anything else the way things are going.
EELightningMy uncle has served in Afghanistan on many occasions while he was in the Royal Marines. I forget how many tours he’s done but he’s done his fair share and bit more on top of that. Although he loved his time in the RM’s, he very rarely talks about his career, you’d be lucky to get a hint of it let alone anything else in any form of detail, if you asked anything, 99% of the time you’d just get a ‘wink’ of an eye, an ‘aye’, a ‘nah’, a ‘maybe’ or a ‘a tap of the nose’ with a little cheeky Irish grin.
But on an occasion he’ll mention something about his time in the RM’s. One time soon after he retired from the RM’s he came to stay with us for a few days here in England, so, here he was with myself and my sister having a cuppa (tea) in her kitchen & something on the news came on the radio about Afghanistan. My sister asked him if he thought it’s made a difference, the troops etc being there & all.
He said he thought a difference had been made and it was making progress etc, but…Slowly but surely…BUT! Heres the thing you see, it can be won, it can be resolved, it can be changed into a better place to be…But it’s going to take alot more than just having troops on the ground and pilots in the air. You can’t just expect to invade a country that had a terrible regime and expect the locals to understand why you’re there from the first moment you stepped onto their homeland until this present day! It’s not as simple as that. It’s a whole lot more complicated and sensitive than it seems to be. And at the end of the day, it’s not entirely up to us to “win”, (i.e. The Armed Forces) it’s up to them, (i.e. the politicians). We’re just puppets on a stepping stone to the next level, i.e. another country.
He also went on to say; without a doubt a good majority of the population of Afghanistan, and Iraq too for this matter appreciate what the allies have done, but look deeply into ther eyes, you can see they’re saying; ‘Thanks for what you’ve done, but please, get the f**k out of here!’..
Then, he swiftly changed the subject. Personally, I wanted to ask a little more about what he just said because I didn’t, and still don’t quite understand what he mean’t on a bit of it. But at the moment I thought to ask I quickly changed my mind not to, I just didn’t think it was fair because he’s obviously seen some messed up situations in his military life so I decided to leave it at that.
And bearing in mind, this is someone that has spent well over 20 years in the RM’s and has seen his fair share of action throughout the world, of which, is difficult the imagine. So I’m 100% sure he knows what he’s talking about.
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