EELightningCrazy, frikkin ridiculous.
Can’t blame the Armed Forces for it, it’s the government that make these outrageous decisions. In their opinion, what the people (RAF etc) that operate these things say, simply, does not matter! Period! They, the government, DO NOT care what they think or say, all they see is, £££ symbols. If it saves money, then get rid of it, simple.
It’s always, and always will be the same. It’s nothing new, the British Armed Forces have always had to make do with what they’ve got and this is no exception.
Like I say, if it saves money for the government, get rid of it, they don’t care what it is. It doesn’t matter to them.
EELightningThey are talking about roughly 107 Typhoons and 40 F-35s for the RAF. How many could the Royal Navy need?
Only 40? Didn’t think it’d be that little of a number. The RN will probably get around 20 then. If that.
I just can’t stop wondering who exactly shall buy those 2500+ F-35s if even UK only orders 90. :confused
Yep. Watch the price go up once again and watch the UK order even less.
Personally, I’d rather the RAF/RN go for Rafale than the F-35.
The Royal Navy wont be getting any. They’re finished with fast jets. Its an RAF show from now on.
But we’re still getting two brand new Aircraft Carriers? Logical.
Do you have a source for this, please?
EELightningWhat made me smile today? Well 3 things:
1. My girlfriend is moving from Dubai, UAE to live with me here in Newcastle Upon Tyne just after the new year in my lovely, Heavy Metal/Rock themed -but rather pleasant, homely & cosy-flat. Really can’t wait for that, been together for….Ehm?….1, 2, 3?…..Eh?….Almost 4(?) years now. 🙂
2. And, I’ve got a ticket, (For the girlfriend too) for Iron Maiden. Well I got them a few weeks ago but I’m still smiling today because I got them. Woohoo!
3. We got a bunch of new stock of guitars in store today, FINALLY, and I seen a stunning 7 string guitar, and smiled…And instead of “working”, I just couldn’t help but plug it in & have a go at it. Well you’ve got to test it haven’t you? It’s part of my job! Yeah? Although it doesn’t take me an *cough* hour…Or two…*cough* *cough* to “test” a new product and…Oh b*ll*ocks to it- I want it and I think I’ll add to me collection? Muahaha! 😀
EELightningWhat made me smile today? Well 3 things:
1. My girlfriend is moving from Dubai, UAE to live with me here in Newcastle Upon Tyne just after the new year in my lovely, Heavy Metal/Rock themed -but rather pleasant, homely & cosy-flat. Really can’t wait for that, been together for….Ehm?….1, 2, 3?…..Eh?….Almost 4(?) years now. 🙂
2. And, I’ve got a ticket, (For the girlfriend too) for Iron Maiden. Well I got them a few weeks ago but I’m still smiling today because I got them. Woohoo!
3. We got a bunch of new stock of guitars in store today, FINALLY, and I seen a stunning 7 string guitar, and smiled…And instead of “working”, I just couldn’t help but plug it in & have a go at it. Well you’ve got to test it haven’t you? It’s part of my job! Yeah? Although it doesn’t take me an *cough* hour…Or two…*cough* *cough* to “test” a new product and…Oh b*ll*ocks to it- I want it and I think I’ll add to me collection? Muahaha! 😀
EELightningBritain may halve its fast-jet fleet by 2020 or so, according to the commanding officer of the Royal Air Force’s No. 1 Group.
“We are heading for five Typhoon squadrons and one JSF [Joint Strike Fighter] squadron,” said Air Vice-Marshal Greg Bagwell, who commands the RAF’s air combat group. “It will be a six-squadron world; that’s what’s on the books.”
The more words like this are mentioned the more I think the F-35 is going to be ordered in double digits. I wouldn’t want to bet on the RAF/RN getting much more than 80-90+ of these wonder jets. I’m also beginning to think that it’ll just be a bit of a one trick pony in British service, too. i.e primary role in A/G and a distant second role in A/A, much like the Harrier GR series and even the Buccaneer. (Maybe I’m exaggerating about the last bit but I wouldn’t be surprised if it did turn out something like that.)
EELightningI like that picture. It might as well say:
😀
EELightningPlease, your claiming a Typhoon with 6-AAM’s and 1-2 External Fuel Tanks. Can out perform a clean F-16 Blk 50 and/or F-35. What a JOKE!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Hit a nerve did I? Think I did with all those eyes rolling and short outburst.
Eh, yes! Do you know why it will outperform a clean F-16 and F-35? Because the Typhoon was designed (with it’s airframe design and supersonic flight control systems etc) to fight it’s A/A fights at, and well above supersonic speeds, WITH an A/A load where as the F-16 & F-35 was not!
And Msphere pointed out that at least four of the missiles have no pylons, in other words, they’re semi-recessed into the Typhoon’s airframe. And since the likes of ASRAAM were designed to operate at the speed of Mach 3+, then theres no problem for them to be stuck on a couple of aerodynamic pylons and operate at around Mach 2.
EELightningTrue and the F-35 is way more capable than the Typhoon. Which, is ending production and the Lightning is just starting.
The F-35’s primary role will be strike, in UK service anyway, where as the Typhoon’s will be A/A. Obviously these two aircraft will both perform A/A and A/G roles, it’s just a matter of which is prefered of which I just stated. Both aircraft are designed to do the same type of job, just in different ways, one will do it at a stand-off range the other will not as often; Typhoon, F-35, respectively. So your logic of the F-35 is “way more capable”, is at best, exaggerated. But hey lets see what happens in the real world, eh.
And production is to do with…What exactly?
Clearly, a clean Tyhoon will out perform a Clean F-16 blk 50. Yet, load the Typhoon up with 6-AAM’s, External Pylon, and Fuel Tanks. Now the advantage of the Typhoon has been greatly degraded.
A Typhoon with six A/A missiles is, clean, which apparantly has been stated before. But you’re missing the point a bit here. Put six A/A missiles and a drop tank or two on a Typhoon, get a clean F-16 (any block you like) or even a F-35 and lets see if they can keep up with Typhoon’s maneuverability, acceleration, speed etc at supersonic regime. After all, thats one of the Typhoon’s party tricks, fighting it’s fights at, and over supersonic speeds.
EELightningThe fact is the Typhoon cost nearly as much as the Lightning II and is vastly less capable in both Air to Air and Air to Ground. As a matter of fact it will have a very hard time surviving future Air Defense Networks and 5th Generation Fighters just around the corner. (i.e. 10-15 years)
Plus, the Typhoon will be out of productions for decades. While the F-35 is still going strong. Personally, I serious doubt the world is going to order F-35’s. If, the Typhoon was so superior…….
BTW Your right about the limited resources available. The UK, Italy, and Spain would rather cut Typhoon Production early. In order to have the funds available to purchase F-35’s.
*sigh*
Hmmm I get the feeling you read my post and thought; ‘I’ll just reply with something from a LM brochure’. Da-da-daaa all done, US in gospel and the rest of worlds isn’t because…Well it’s just NOT!!!
Again, how many F-35’s are the UK purchasing again? Oh yeah, not as many as Typhoon’s numbers. Theres a clue.
And as MSphere said; Everything is being cut. And not just to order a god-built aeroplane.
Edit: And just because more numbers of ‘A’ are being made/produced in greater numbers than ‘B’ doesn’t make it any better. A Ford Fiesta is produced in greater numbers than an Aston Martin DBS, so what? It’s not going to overtake the Aston & leave it in it’s dust on a track, is it?
EELightningSorry, you are very mistaken. The F-35 will easily Detect, Shoot, and Destroy your Eurocanards before they knew what hit them.
First Look, First Shot, and First Kill.
I will add the Three out of Four Eurofighter Partners are ending orders for the Typhoon and about to order Lightning II’s. Which, says it all…….;)
Respectfully
You had the LM brochure next to you I see.
And how many of these “superior” F-35’s are the UK ordering again? And in case you haven’t noticed, we, UK are going through a time where the government is cutting everything (apart from their own security and their pleasentries of course), so the Typhoon, and Tornado too for this matter, isn’t being cut because it’s not any good. It’s because of money, thats it. So you see, it DOESN’T say it all. same for other countries. Look at the real world, scooter.
And with the price going up for the F-35, it’ll very likely be ordered in double digits, I’d be very surprised if it goes over the 100 mark, now IMO.
And in the RAF at least, the Typhoon will be the backbone of the RAF in the decades to come.
EELightningF-35 was designed to be able to find and “keep eyes upon” IADS, TEL and armor targets even as they are being moved, and direct weapons to them. No Gen 4 has that capability.
Not as of yet anyway. Probably by time the F-35 enters service the likes of Typhoon, Rafale etc well have it, or something else thats similar.
EELightningAren’t the UK purchasing these at some point? Wasn’t there something about the Type 45 destroyers operating them in the future or, don’t I know anything about it?…
Anyway, if they, UK, don’t then, it’s a bit of a shame. Like Bluewings said, it’s a real beast.
EELightningSorry to go off topic but, just been thinking…Thinking out loud I must say, but…
Lets say for example, the F-22 could carry say, a couple of Storm Shadow cruise missiles (or equivalent) in it’s weapon bays in replace of it’s AMRAAM’s, (yes I know the Storm Shadows won’t fit, but you know). And what if it launched them outside the environment it wanted to bomb while still flying in “stealth mode”. i.e at stand off ranges that the likes of Typhoon would operate from while performing the same role and not operating in an area where it could get detected.
Wouldn’t that be a better option than operating in an area and dropping SDB’s, while also in “stealth mode”, obviously? Aferall, “stealth” is “supposedly” harder to detect at longer ranges, yeah? So why doesn’t some boffin come up with a clever little cruise missile that can be carried by the F-22 for this kind of sortie? If it decreases your chances of being shot down, then why not?
EELightningThe Indians will be total fools if they decide to go for a U.S. plane. Wikileak documents have just revield what dirty tricks they secretly played on us during the Norwegian fighter tender last year.
Staling and denying deliveries of sub systems etc (on the explicit recomendation of the US ambassador in Stockholm). Not that it matter though since the Norwegian deal was just a show-tender from the very start. This has also been confirmed now. More info will follow soon..
X2
All I can say is, they’ve shown their true colours of what they think of the rest of the world and they’re certainly not my favourite people at the moment. Feel sorry for the genuine Yanks out there.
If they go for a US aircraft, silly if they do IMO, then the politicians would’ve chosen it for political reasons and not technical, performance etc reasons. If the likes of the Rafale and Typhoon are in this competition, as we know of course that they are, then it’s a no-brainer to go for one of those, better choice especially in the long run.
The Typhoon may not have any American strings, but it depends on the goodwill of far too many countries.
The only “US thing” in the Typhoon IIRC, is the GPS. So I think the Typhoon is quite safe, if not, well, the US can go fu……Away. I think the US threw a hissy fit when the Typhoon was being negotiated between the UK and Saudi Arabia. Needless to say they got nowhere.
EELightningIn the Daily Telegraph yesterday disclosure of documents shows American Commanders pouring scorn on British efforts in Sangin Province in Helmand. The leaked cables express by US commanders the failure of British forces to maintain security around town. The comments have been said by the father of Capt Tony Philipson who died in securing Sangin as being insulting and inappropiate. He states that when the British went in during 2006 the Americans and Canadians had been there for some years and had been banned from going into the centre of Sangin because it was too dangerous. In his opinion they had never taken charge of the place.
My uncle spent 20+ years in the Royal Marines as a sniper, he’s been in all over the place, The Falklands, Northern Ireland, GW2, Kosovo, Sierra Leone and Afghanistan to name but a few etc etc and retired from the British Armed Forces not so long a go, well about 6 years ago actually.
And with him being an Irishman and currently living in Northern Ireland, he sometimes got a lot of sh*t because he served in the RM’s, being called silly names such as, “murderer” and all that rubbish, really just petty stuff…Anyway, to us, i.e family, friends fellow country men/woman that appreciate what they do for a living and career, he’s a hero through & through and one of the nicests chaps you could ever meet. (But you wouldn’t want to cross him. No, no!)…
…And you get idiots like those Yanks (not all) that don’t appreciate what the British Armed Forces have done and sacrificed for them and their little pathetic “empire”. Well, I’ve got much to say about them and their arrogance but, I’d keep it simple for now:
Envy is a nasty thing to have and I’d like to see them do any better than us, and of course, their own military, “professional” record isn’t the greatest in history, is it!!!
Now, can we NOW bring the British Armed Forces back home because it’s now obvious that they’re not appreciated! Makes me sick!
Just my pennies worth!
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