Stats, schmatz. The stats do not tell you everything :rolleyes:

Well, erm. They do tell you a hell of a lot! Mark Webber has been in Formula 1 since 2002, Vettel has been in a lot less. Look at what they’ve achieved in their time.

Vettel has been the glint in the Redbull Team Principle’s eye and as such has enjoyed preferential treatment and protection, as alluded to by Webber in his frustration on Sunday which was not denied by this Dr. whatshisname, the man in question.

Like a lot of drivers, Lewis was a glint in Mclaren’s eyes as was Senna which he was for Williams too, Micheal was for Ferrari and Benetton, Mika was for Mclaren (even more so than Lewis), Clark and Hill were for Lotus, Stewert for Tyrell, Prost – Mclaren, Williams, early days of Ferrari, Alonso – Ferrari, Vettel – Red Bull… how many more can one list? Theres a perfectly good reason for this, the reason being is because they have that “thing” to win. As much as I like Mark Webber, he isn’t anything special. He can win for sure but he isn’t championship material, though I’d like to be proved wrong on that because I like the guy. But he’s had well over 10 years in Formula 1, he’s hardly been head hunted after.

Anyway, if Vettel is the glint in Red Bull’s eyes why was he told to hold back and let Webber win? Surely Mark should’ve been told to pull over and let Seb through?

Time and again Webber was told to let Vettel pass. The stats show success under those circumstances. They do not reflect the reality of what both drivers are capable of. I think Webber is more than capable and in the same league of skill as Vettel. He’s just more mature. Vettel is a spoiled brat with an ego to match.

See above.

True what you say about Webber keeping back to help Vettel. But you forget how many times Vettel has been in front and Webber couldn’t even catch him. Most of the time Webber has been outclassed by Seb. If Mark wants to win, he can either show it and do it more often or he can simply find another team and prove he is better than Seb that way.

If I may add, Martin Brundle would agree; Vettel is probably the only driver on the grid that can talk at great length to any reporter, about anything. Other drivers spend more time moaning. If I quote Martin Brundle from a few years ago: ‘He talks to reporters, he answers all of their questions, he asks questions, and all with a friendly smile… he’s giving Grand Prix drivers a bad name!’

Only to the elite ruthless arrogant punks like Vettel.
As Coulthard correctly commented, a driver drives for the team, the manufacturer, the sponsors. The driver has to keep them happy. If you defy their orders you create friction and can find yourself without a team rapidly.

Yes… :rolleyes:

Still, you wouldn’t turn down Vettel to join your team if you wanted to win races and championships. Unless you’re a charity for sympathy and hire a below average driver like Webber.

I wonder. Would you have moaned if Seb had held his place and there for had a boring race? Most probably.

Its been about money ever since the Lotus team first stuck decals on the side of their car in the late 60s. On one hand it’s brought controversy, on the other what’s it brought?… Money obviously, but in turn its saved lives all for spectators, drivers and team members, advances in designs, road safety… the list is endless. Without sponsorship the sport would have never progressed in these areas.

No sponsor wants to see an F1 car in a heap blended into the side of a barrier in flames burning the driver to death with their brand on the side, do they.

Besides. Would this Williams FW18 look better without sponsorship decals and that helmet?

I think not! 😀

Vettel is “dangerous”?… I don’t see him deliberately ramming other drivers when he gets into a strop like that no good Pastor Maldonado does – remember when he rammed Hamilton in Spa and Perez in Monaco? Maldonado should be thrown out of F1, plus he can’t drive a nail into a plank of wood let alone a multi-million quid F1 car round a circuit.

As I say, Vettel was naughty, Webber drove a solid race but at the end of the day they’re both out to win! And that’s what Vettel did at all costs without being dangerous – Webber pushed Vettel right up against the pit wall, *cough* like Schumacher did with Barrichello did in Hungary ’10! *Cough-cough*.

Red Bull wanted a 1-2 finish and they got it! So whatever, thanks for a great race, Webber is a below average driver and Vettel is in a different league as the stats say. As a BBC F1 watcher, I feel ripped off to what they done with the coverage, less than half of live races now. So this battle was very welcome for me!

This is Formula 1! Ruthless, competitive and full of arrogant egos with a desire to do nothing but win! Drivers come first in their mind, then the team, then other drivers and theres a bit of a distant gap for their team-mates. Get over it. Its been the same ever since Formula 1 first started.

If I may add to my last post on this thread; theres a reason why Webber has only 9 wins and 0 championships and Vettel has 27 wins and 3 championships. Simple, Vettel is a much better driver!

Webber has his moments, when he’s on form he’s a ruddy good driver that can be next to impossible to beat but this is rather rare. But he’s too inconsistent. Theres a pattern with Mark, if he’s on the front or second row of the grid he tends to have a pretty solid race providing he makes a good start. If he doesn’t make a good start from the front he tends to drop back as opposed to Vettel, (who wrote off his chances in Brazil last year after he spun and ended up facing the wrong way on the circuit, and stone dead last? I did). Yet he came from nowhere to get enough points to take the driver’s championship. This is what I admire about Sebastian, if he wants something he has the talent and skill to take it even if he’s facing the wrong way on the first lap. Most other drivers would just call it a day and plod on in a hope the cars in front have engine trouble.

I guess one has to ask; if you had a race winning car, would you turn Vettel down?

Huge Formula 1 fan here, have been ever since I was a lil’ one.

I’m not a fan of team-orders, it ruins the races but there are times when they are needed. Times when a driver’s or constructor’s championship is at risk, then maybe fair enough I see what they’re trying to defend. However, this was only the second race and I didn’t see why team orders were being barked out by Red Bull Racing and Mercedes GP too for that matter – Rosberg could’ve got past Hamilton anytime he wanted during the final few laps of the race. As a proud Brit I’m a huge fan of Vettel, he’s one of the most exciting drivers on the grid both in and out of the car. What he did was a bit naughty but hey, this is a highly competitive sport where drivers simply race for one reason, to win!

Vettel drove a clean race as did Webber, though Webber did push Vettel a bit too close to the pit wall. Neverless, they drove cleanly and it was hugely entertaining to watch, by far the best scrap of the race. If Webber wanted that win bad enough then he should’ve tried as hard as Vettel, simple!

Its about time someone stuck their middle finger up to team orders, and it was a welcome sight. Great race won by a great driver!

I read somewhere that the EF can’t fire air to air weapons while inverted.

I would provide a source but I can’t be bothered. Why don’t you do it for me? 😉

If you are going to make an assertion, you should be prepared to provide some credible backing for it. It isn’t my job to go hunting for some article you think you remember.

It isn’t your job but you still doubt it anyway. Soooo f-16.net. :rolleyes:

Air Forces Monthly, September European Edition, 2012. Go have a look.

http://www.airforcesmonthly.com/view_issue.asp?ID=3144

i mean most of the time , not all the time , and managed to get in WVR doesnot mean f-16 will win 😀 we still have dogfight missiles remembered 😎

Well, the report stated that the F-16s managed to get in the merge ‘and’ kill the F-22s in WVR.

Nah. For Canada and Australia this is true, but not for Denmark or other European nations. Gripen is the spoiler there.

Indeed. While Eurofighter GmbH and Dassault boast and bicker about who has what ordered and what interests they’re getting from other countries. The plucky Gripen is picking up orders left, right and centre behind their backs. And rightly so too.