Why would the Rafale need TVC? It’s one of the most agile fighters out there.

So is the Typhoon. But they’re not just for agility, also very good for trmming drag, fuel consumption, take off weights etc.

Want more goodies developed you pay for them. You don’t want to pay you go get more F16s.

Or Typhoon. 😀

still unable to claim its multi-role capabilities until 2018 which mean pilots and squadrons won’t be operational until at the very least 2020.

Sounds like you got that information from Lewis Page & Co. The Typhoon has already claimed it’s multi-role capability. Of course, not to an extent we would’ve like it to be, granted. Other than dropping Paveway IIs, Typhoons (RAF) have proved they can use various onboard sub-systems to gain information about potential targets on the ground. As one RAF Typhoon pilot puts it; “In addition to conducting air-to-air and air-to-ground missions, Patounas says Typhoon’s defensive aids subsystem was used to provide situational awareness also for Tornado GR4s. Even in the absence of surface-to-air missile attacks, the electronic warfare system proved useful. In one case it detected an SA-3 that had been hit early in the conflict only to be repaired. The radar warning receiver information was used to strike the target again.”

And another pilot…

““We don’t actually move from air-to-air to air-to-surface – the aircraft is always providing the pilot with information about the air environment and we can employ missiles against hostile threat aircraft at any time. So if you like, employing air-to-surface weapons is a capability that works with, not against, the other capabilities of the aircraft. The difficult part of the mission is interpreting the complicated picture on the ground and ensuring that the weapons are used against the right target, every time”.

The years you state, 2018 – 2020, are the years the Typhoon will be fully multi-role capable – also around that time they’ll have “electronic attack” capability, if not sooner. And integration of various A/G weapons and other systems are well underway and have been for some time wrt various sub-systems etc, despite many suggest no one is willing to dish out money.

HMD is available…

HMD/HMSS or HEA as it’s properly known has been in frontline operational service with the RAF Typhoons for the past 7 weeks now.

GE and RR have decided to stop self-financed development of the F136 alternative F-35 engine ie it’s dead

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=8450963&c=AME&s=AIR

Possibly upping the price of the F-35 to gain back what they lost on that engine, then?

Actually EEL, agreed!
I thought about it and got an idea :
Schweiz gets Gripen C/Ds with upgrade
to replace the Tigers …
thus providing the conditions of the NG’s development …
and later full NGs to replace the Hornets?

Hmmm? Sounds good. It could well worth the effort if the Swiss want to focus on one type of aircraft. Seriously, if I were them I would consider that idea. Additional sales for Saab and more commonality for the Swiss Air Force.

That’s really canny idea you have there, Tay. 😉

Also thnx for the concern but after years of biking all year round
in one of the most nordic places in the world, simply walking is …
huh … say mundane, lol. 😉

Biking as in cycling? Cool, I do a bit of biking myself, albeit trial biking. Cool. 😉

OK mate lets consider this,
Its obvious that Rafale has beaten the Eurofighter in technical evaluation
like in each and every competition since these two eurocanards are completing with each other, the Rafale was always ahead..Correct me if I am wrong.
Its cheaper than the Eurofighter no question or show me one single contest in which the Typhoon has offered the better overall price.
Regarding other issues read my previous post.

Jackonicko addressed those points.

The common sense ( not Dassault or French press) in INDIA says ‘ THE RAFALE’

Whom is “India”?

Many professional defence analysts have reported the Typhoon had came out on top during the Indian trials, some of the same ones also reported/predicted that these two aircraft were favourites to be shortlisted, this was well before anything official was announced by India. The same chap also reported in the same article that the Typhoon had a “favourable price”. This is slowly starting to make more sense as we hear reports coming out of the likes of UAE and India. From India at least, the Rafale was quoted at only less than 5% cheaper than the Typhoon (Tranche 3) and not by a significantly cheaper amount many believed it to be. And no need to repeat what the UAE said.

The professional defence analysts I speak of come from, and are, AFM, AI, CAM, Mark Ayton, Jon Lake, Jamie Hunter, Piotr Butowski, Stephen Trimble from Flight and I believe Pushpindar Singh and a few others reported similar, too. To name but a few. We all learn from a lot of sources and authors, its a matter of whom has the better credibility.

No.. India will be different..You will see…

They also said similar words after they made every potential sale go ar$e over t*t.

Not necessarily. The alleged dramatic increase of Typhoon’s A-A qualities toward the competition, that is what was bonkers from the very start, IMO.

It’s A/A qualities are better today than what they were 4-5 years ago. Anywho, from what I can gather these trials from Switzerland are still very much classified at this point. Regardless of whats been leaked.

Regarding A-A, Typhoon might be superior to a Hornet in supersonic but given the population density and limited Swiss airspace I must ask whether such quality has had any weighting in the eval, at all. And at lower speeds the Typhoon is definitely inferior to the nose pointing capability of the F-18 as most aircraft are.. Maybe that was far more important to SwAF that soaring at M2.0 which they can hardly use?

To be honest. In the A/A role the Typhoon could might have been too overkill for what the Swiss need it for, especially in BVR and high supersonic performance. However, I would still consider it to be superior in the subsonic regimes to the F/A-18. The Typhoon could’ve came with IRS-T and HMSS, and indeed the F/A-18’s nose pointing capability is very good, it comes in handy when landing on an aircraft carrier or performing slow air show maneuvers. But the rule of the thumb is, in WVR speed + performance is the key to winning (Swiss Air Force will know this of course) and unfortunately for the F/A-18 – these aren’t it’s strongest abilities. The Swiss’ choice to go for the Gripen was their best bet IMO. It’s easy on their budget during peace time, not too overkill, but more than capable enough to hold it’s own if the Swiss get into a spot of bother, and lets be honest, they never do.

but I feel that the myth about how Typhoon was only second to F-22 in terms of A-A has been effectively killed.

That doesn’t really explain much…The Typhoon has quite a reputation of being dangerous to fight agains’t in A/A, but thats another discussion for another thread.

As I stated above, trials from Switzerland are still very much classified at this point. There for I personally take “leaked” claims, rumours, charts etc with a bucket of salt and consider them to be speculation, at best. Of course harmless to discuss them, but I wouldn’t take them for granted.

Of course, you would undoubtedly know better than the people who spent weeks evaluating the aircraft. 😎

Making a claim (if one could call it that) that the Typhoon is on par or slightly worse than an F/A-18 in A/A is bonkers by anyone standards.