Good point Garry. I think glanini might be hoping that more people say Italy is top 5….. 🙂

As a student of naval history, Glenn, you should know that Pearl Harbor was considered “pre-emptive defense.”

They didn’t want to invade the US, just knock it out of a war that everyone knew was coming with a classic pre-emptive strike.

Anyways, Vortex was the one who brought up surprise attacks 🙂

I’ve no idea why he brought it up but when he did we need to look at history. It’s really just bantering between the two of us.

I am well aware of what Pearl Harbour was; but it was pre-emptive offense. Japan was the aggressor. But some where along the line of this discussion sneak attack has been mentioned, and then historical precedents were mentioned, and fair enough. But you have to look at the Japan of then and the Japan of now, and the world as a whole as well. Imperialism is dead. This whole thing of sneak attack is rather more general anyway, anyone who may feel severly threatened by a neighbour might simply step up and strike first. Lets get back to the topic.

history is written by the victors. would you have been taught the same lessons in class had germany and japan won?

Debatable, Japanese text books have caused controversy in the past with their less than accurate accounts of World War 2. Lets avoid the speculation, and get back to the topic.

DERBY has a diameter of 16 cm. (6.3 in.), is 362 cm. (12 ft.) long and weighs 118 kg. (260 lb.). And then it has a max engagement range of 50km!! They used the PYTHON motor and added to it to give the DERBY more range, but more than twice that of a PYTHON 4? I wonder……. :confused:

Even though it is BVR capable, I suspect the DERBY is designed to complement the PYTHON series for the Israelis in the short range engagement envolope. Imagine if you have a PYTHON-5 and a DERBY fired at you from 5km or less away! What escape zone you might say…..

Rice woos China over US naval buildup

BEIJING—China is getting edgy over a new US military strategy aimed at projecting force around the globe and National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice’s visit last week was an attempt to calm Beijing down, analysts said.

Funny thing is, in another decade or so it might China trying to reassure the US of the same thing.

Historic precedence predicts a Japanese sneak attack not a Chinese commie one.

Yes but the same mindset that drove Japanese leadership in the first half of the 20th century (and indeed the later part of the 19th) is not there now, not after 50 years of living by a dictated constitution. If the Japanese launched a sneak attack today it would pre-emptive defence, not expansionism. I am sure, and would hope Japan has learned from the utter waste World War II was for them.

u think so..any certain date?

Ok, then perhaps once it has seen some service. So maybe Paris in 2007.

does any one know when the raptor would debut at an airshow with proper performance rather then static displays and fly by’s

International? At a guess I reckon Paris 2005.