Correct me if I am wrong…

The Gorshkov battle group would most likely consist of:
– 1 Gorshkov CV
– 3 Delhi DDG
– 3 Talwar FFG
– 3 Shivalik FFG
with the possibility of
– 1 Akula SSN

Each of the escort surface ships can carry at least two helos with the CV being able to carry 6-8. Gives a helo total of around 24 – 26 for just the battle group. That would leave room for about 14 – 16 Mig-29Ks on the CV.

Added later: Of course this scenario is a wartime scenario. During peacetime, the CVBG would have less escorts, the exact number depending on availability and desire.

Looks like the CVBG would be low on fixed wing assets and the primary function of the 29Ks would be for fleet air defense considering that the IN doesn’t have anything like the SM-2 or Aster 30. Nonetheless, the CVBG would be able to monitor and sanitize a good bit of volume in the ASW, AAW, and ASuW realms. Definitely not the best solution but a good start for the IN to start showing blue water legs.

If in 10-15 years, the PLAN shows up in the Indian Ocean with a carrier that can hold 40+ aircraft, the IN would seriously have to reconsider going with a larger carrier.

BTW, in the IOR, is there any other navy that would have the raw capabilities of that one IN CVBG?

I would say even in wartime, the escorts would be fewer. You have to remember that they would want to have sufficient escort numbers to cover for both carriers that will eventually be active by approx.2012, that is the Vikramaditya (Gorshkov) and the first ADS. They have only three Talwar-class FFGs and they do intend to build 12 Shivalik-class FFGs. The Indians want to be able to field two carrier groups in future and thus I would see a typical war-footing CVBG for the IN Vikramaditya as:

The IN Vikramaditya CV
Two Delhi-class DDGs (possibly one would be a Bangalore-class or P15A)
One Talwar-class FFG
Two Shivalik-class FFG
One large Oiler (either Aditya or Jyoti)
One Akula-class SSN or the ATV

IN doesn’t have anything like the SM-2 or Aster 30

Not yet, but this has to be coming. You are not going to last relying purely on air power to protect the fleet. Enough wars have proven that I think. I think it is only a matter of time before the Indians eventually jump on the Area-wide air defence destroyer/frigate band wagon.

If in 10-15 years, the PLAN shows up in the Indian Ocean with a carrier that can hold 40+ aircraft, the IN would seriously have to reconsider going with a larger carrier.

I would say the Indians will be doing that long before the Chinese ever enter the IO with a flat top. As soon as the Chinese start down that road watch for the Indian reaction.

BTW, in the IOR, is there any other navy that would have the raw capabilities of that one IN CVBG?

Not locally, but otherwise it would only be the USN, the RN, or perhaps the Russian fleet if they go it together.

This on the Zhuk vs. Bars radar issue.

Indian Generals Attack the “Zhuk”

The contract for the sale to India of the aircraft carrying cruiser “Admiral Gorshkov” and 16 carrier-based Mig-29K fighters which was singed in Delhi in January by Russia’s defense minister Sergey Ivanov is being threatened. On Monday the Indians arrive in Moscow to gain an understanding of it.

According to information on hand, it originally had been planned to sign the documents for the sale of the “Admiral Gorshkov” aircraft carrier and the carrier-based fighters in November. But the Indians, referring to the fact “some technical issues” have not been studied over, requested they put off the ceremony to January. As technical issues, as it became known to Gazeta.RU, the Indians understand the MiG-29K delivery as a complete set is not with the standard “Zhuk-MEh” radars for this contract, but with the modern N-011 “Bars” – such as are being installed on the Su-30MKI being produced for the Indian air force. The “Bars” is more modern and high-speed – a phased antenna array with electronic beam scanning is used in it; the “Zhuk-MEh” is simpler, a slotted antenna array with mechanical beam scanning is used in it.

The management of the Russian Airplane Building Corporation (RSK) MiG in every way possible has been avoiding Indian requests as regards a change of radars. The “Bars” is notably more expensive than the “Zhuk,” and the Russo-Indian contract already has been signed, that is the price for ship-borne MiG-29K is fixed delivered as a complete set with the “Zhuks.” It is clear that is simply not to RSK’s advantage to change the equipment. Besides the direct incomplete advantage, the RSK also suffers indirectly. In order to deliver the MiG-29K with another, non-standard radar, new flight tests have to take place. These not only would hit the finances again of the airplane builder, but also would place in doubt the period for fulfilling the contract: the MiG corporation simply cannot succeed in doing everything by the end of 2008 as is recorded in the Russo-Indian documents. The airplane builder’s obstinacy is even very explicable, but it already has brought about unpleasantness for itself: in particular, because of the unwillingness to install the “Bars” on the MiG-29K, Nikolay Fedorov was relieved from is post as RSK MiG general director and general designer. While trying in any event not to let the Indian contract go, Moscow took on for itself the obligations to resolve all issues which arise along the way. But MiG continues opposition. So, on 16 February, a delegation of Indian generals from the ministry of defense arrives in Moscow, but no one in essence will be talking with them: the present manager of RSK MiG, Valeriy Toryanin, has gone on an official business trip to Algiers.

Besides, the customer’s requirement is supposed to be for seller by law, especially while it is a question of the replacement of one Russian radar for another. In the future, Moscow’s intractability can lead to India’s refusal of any Russian radars – the Indians may demand the installation on the MiG-29K, for example, of Western European radars. It is not being ruled out that the affair is exclusively the exorbitant ambitions of the “Zhuk’s” manufacturer, the Moscow OAO Fazotron-NIIR Corporation (Moscow), which always has installed its own radars on the MiG family of airplanes and which right now in a panic is afraid of losing the Indian market. (The “Bars” was created at the Tikhomirov Scientific Research Institute of Instrument Building (Zhukovskiy). – Gazeta.RU.) Although Fazotron-NIIR has positive experience in cooperation with India: the “Kop’yo” radar was created there for upgrade of the MiG-21bis fighters which serve in the Indian air force’s inventory, the MiG-21-93 variant.

Right now the matter with Fazotron stands as not the best example. The corporation became a sub-contractor of an instrument building design bureau (Tula), which concluded a huge contract in 2000 (734 million dollars) for the development for the United Arab Emirates of the “Pantsir’-S1″ anti-aircraft missile and gun complex. Over a period of 2 years from the moment of its conclusion it was necessary to finish scientific research and experimental design work on the complex, and later over 3 years (2003-2005) to delivery 50 “Pantsirs” in three batches (12, 24 and 14 examples respectively.)

Fazotron was obliged to develop a system for interfacing the targets and missiles (SSTsR) for the “Pantsir’”, however, they were 2 years late with it: only in the last year were autonomous tests completed of the system, which then was installed on the military vehicle, and which up to now is undergoing tests. Simply speaking, the periods for the fulfillment of an important contract with the UAE were disrupted; whether this is a trend – the fulfillment of the Indian contract by Fazotron will show.

Source: 16.02.04, Gazeta.RU

Artist rendition of the ADS :

The image is a drawing done by a friend of mine whom I have co-written with before. His name is Mrityunjoy Mazumdar, an Indian living in California. I think his sketch is more or less that of the STOBAR model found here:http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/ADS.html

24 Mig-29K’s plus 6-8 Helo? Isn’t that a small Airwing for a Carrier of her size? (i.e. 45,000 tons)

Scooter: have a look here http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Gorshkov.html

Where are they going to fit more aircraft beyond 24 Mig-29Ks and a few Helos? Depsite its weight the hangar and deck space is still limited even after the proposed refit (this is not a another Kuznetsov after all), and I think anymore aircraft and you’ll have a traffic problem.

True, the MTCR is by no means enforcable international law, or even a ratified treaty, but a series of established and agreed guidelines and rules governing the transfer of long range missiles and similar weapons, and related tech. Designed to protect those that have joined it, principally the major powers I think. But within the regime, members are allowed on rare occasions to export long range missiles to each other provided assurances are given on their use.

One should read more on the MTCR, as it will explain more on exactly what it is all about.

I was under the impression it was based on the standard Yakhont.