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Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 347 total)
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  • in reply to: Saab JAS 39 Gripen Info # 2 #2347811
    datafuser
    Participant

    But it is true that sweden ordered more aircrafts then they later needed due to the fall of sovietunion, but that order was changed and not all where delivered.

    Out of 204 Gripens ordered by FMV, how many are not yet manufactured/delivered?

    Also note that what Saab said in their 2011 Year End Report.

    Swedish Air Force:
    120 aircraft: 106 JAS 39A and 14 JAS 39B 84 aircraft : 70 JAS 39C and 14 JAS 39D

    And the numbers add up nicely like this: 134 in SwAF + 67 export/lease + 3 test aircraft = 204 originally ordered by FMV for SwAF

    Yes South Africa, Czech, Hungary and Thailand all received new builds, but those new builds were originally ordered by FMV for the Swedish air force. That means Sweden sold unwanted “delivery slots” to other countries.

    in reply to: Saab JAS 39 Gripen Info # 2 #2347815
    datafuser
    Participant

    No, the South African aircraft were new built, & that sales campaign, & others (e.g. Poland) never offered aircraft intended for Sweden. SAAB said in 2008 that all the aircraft for Thailand would be new.

    I didn’t say South African Gripens are not new builds.

    Note that what Saab said in their 2011 Year End Report below.

    Swedish Air Force:
    120 aircraft: 106 JAS 39A and 14 JAS 39B 84 aircraft : 70 JAS 39C and 14 JAS 39D

    This means Sweden ordered 204 Gripens and then diverted 26 not-yet-built Gripens (or delivery slots) to South Africa.

    Numbers add up like this.

    134 in SwAF + 67 export/lease + 3 test aircraft = 204 originally ordered by FMV for SwAF

    67 export/lease = 26 South Africa + 14 Czech + 14 Hungary + 12 Thailand + 1 UK ETPS

    The conclusion I can draw from the numbers above is that Sweden ordered 204 and then offloaded unwanted, not-yet-built Gripens to South Africa, Czech, Hungary and Thailand.

    http://forum.keypublishing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=203986&d=1331853515

    in reply to: Saab JAS 39 Gripen Info # 2 #2348084
    datafuser
    Participant

    Here is a reference from swedish AF, remember that 3 aircrafts where test -aircrafts, never delivered to SwAF. I cant find any english version. 134 are used by SwAF, it doesnt show the complete picture tough, because i miss southafrica and Thailand aircrafts. My source says that Swiss AF is buying new aircrafts, but they will surely lease some (new) C/D or Versions for a short while before delivery. If they want to start pilottraining and so on. Im sure they can have them in place in short notice.

    There are strong interest in tje remaining C/D-versions from other users, both current operators and new ones. The deal with SAF does not in any way come as a result from surplus older versions. Thats another story altoghether.

    Till FMV/Försvarsmakten levererade Jas 39 Gripen
    Totalt: 201 st
    Jas 39A: 104 st (varav ca 25 st Jas 39A har ombyggts till 14 st JAS 39C/D för Ungern)
    Jas 39B: 14 st
    Jas 39C: 69 st (varav 12 st leasas av Tjeckien)
    Jas 39D: 14 st (varav 2 st leasas av Tjeckien)
    (Ursprungligen beställdes totalt 204 st JAS 39. 1 st Jas 39A fick ersätta provflygplan 39-1 som havererade 1989, 1 st Jas 39A blev prototyp för tvåsitsiga Jas 39B, 1 st Jas 39C blev provflygplan vid Saab)

    Totalt finns 134 flygplan i tjänst i det svenska flygvapnet:
    Jas 39A: 54 st
    Jas 39B: 12 st.
    Jas 39C: 56 st.
    Jas 39D: 12 st.

    Andcif u compare notes with wiki it makes sence
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_Gripen
    According to this 163 is in service. Those that are missing should be old A/B version due for upgrade to C/D standard by request from SwAF and other users, and those in storage.

    134 in SwAF + 67 export/lease + 3 test aircraft = 204 originally ordered by FMV for SwAF

    67 export/lease = 26 South Africa + 14 Czech + 14 Hungary + 12 Thailand + 1 UK ETPS

    It gives me an impression that all the export campaigns so far (perhaps except the Swiss campaign?) have been just to offload unwanted Gripens to somebody else.

    http://forum.keypublishing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=203985&d=1331853515

    http://forum.keypublishing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=203986&d=1331853515

    in reply to: Saab JAS 39 Gripen Info # 2 #2348427
    datafuser
    Participant

    My understanding is that the gripen NG share some fuselage components with gripen A/B and gripen C/D, but that all ramaining A/B’s are due for upgrade to C/D standard. And besides there are buyers in line for those more or less, so my guess is that swiss AF will get brand new gripen NG’s. Altough they might get some gripen D versions to get going with pilottraining ASAP if required.
    (but i can ask some who knews abaut this.

    The statment abaout this competition being very fair and thorough, is present in many of the big military magazines and newssites.

    My understanding is also that SAF was divided abaout what aircraft they wanted, Gripen provides an excellent working environment for pilots, but there’s other crew involved dont forget ground crew. And still, when explained abaut the economics even more of the involved staff started to understand the gripen concept. Swiss airforce commander has also strongly made announcments abaut this issue.

    OK, have all those 204 Gripens ordered by FMV already been manufactured & delivered?

    I’ve read somewhere that the Swedish air force plans to keep only about 100 Gripens, so I guess at least 34 Gripens are surplus to requirement – can be sold/leased to any taker?

    in reply to: Saab JAS 39 Gripen Info # 2 #2348541
    datafuser
    Participant

    Raw conclusion is simple: Gripen E/F wasnt the best aircraft overall in the final evaluation, but met min.req on all aspects and it was the most economical buy.

    BTW, will the SAF get “new production” Gripens or get some ex-Swedish Gripens upgraded to the E/F standard?

    In 2001 Saab stated FMV “ordered” 204 Gripens, and the page 10 of the 2011 Year End Report dated 10th February 2012 and the Swedish Ny Teknik article below seem to suggest all 67 export/leased Gripens so far actually have come out of those 204 Gripens ordered by FMV before 2001.

    The Ny Teknik article says “The Swedish Armed Forces bought 204 pieces of the JAS 39 Gripen of Saab since the first orders were in the 1980s” and “In total there are currently 134 aircraft in service in the Swedish Air Force”, which means Sweden ordered 204 and then sold/leased off 67 to other countries, leaving 134 in the Swedish air force service. Remaining 3 could perhaps be used by Saab for development work.

    http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/fordon_motor/flygplan/article3419633.ece

    FAKTA 204 plan för 130 miljarder

    Det svenska försvaret har köpt 204 stycken Jas 39 Gripen av Saab sedan de första beställningarna lades på 1980-talet. Sammanlagt har det kostat svenska skattebetalare cirka 130 miljarder kronor.

    De 204 planen blev 201 sedan tre plan använts till annat. Så här fördelade sig de 201 planen:

    Jas 39A: 104 st (varav ca 25 st Jas 39A har ombyggts till 14 st JAS 39C/D för Ungern)
    Jas 39B: 14 st
    Jas 39C: 69 st (varav 12 st leasas av Tjeckien)
    Jas 39D: 14 st (varav 2 st leasas av Tjeckien)

    Totalt finns i dag 134 flygplan i tjänst i det svenska flygvapnet:

    Jas 39A: 54 st
    Jas 39B: 12 st
    Jas 39C: 56 st
    Jas 39D: 12 st

    Källa: Försvarsmakten

    in reply to: Saab JAS 39 Gripen Info # 2 #2348554
    datafuser
    Participant

    One report was leaked, and its no coinsidense that it was just exactly that old evaluation that said Gripen wouldnt meet SAF needs. I’m fully aware that officialy its said to originate from a swiss officer, u can rest asure it wasnt without help financially from dassault.

    Someone at the SAF was paid by Dassault to leak that report?

    in reply to: Four Eurofighter countries' range requirements? #2294882
    datafuser
    Participant

    Nothing special about the practical range or flight-time requirements of the Typhoon with a internal fuel-fraction close to 0,3.
    It was one hour by internal fuel or up to two hours with 3 typical 1000 litre ETs in general, when the air-refuelling capability can add more time and range. All that varies with height, speed, weapons-load, combat allowance and safety requirements.

    Was the original German range requirement shorter than the UK’s?

    Any credible numbers on the combat radius of the F-22 and Eurofighter in an apple-to-apple comparison?

    datafuser
    Participant

    AW&ST, 21st Dec 2011, reported this: “The cost of buying 70 Kawasaki Heavy Industries P-1 maritime aircraft and running them for 48 years is estimated at ¥2.285 trillion.”

    in reply to: F-35A for Japan #2295275
    datafuser
    Participant

    It would be hideously more expensive due to all the setup costs related to building all the parts, assembly facilities, training, etc that can only be spread across 42 planes.

    At least the costs related to the F-2 were planed to be spread across a few hundred planes.

    Originally planned to be a 141-aircraft fleet, then cut down to 130, 98 and finally 94.

    in reply to: Dornier's light fighter design for India in 1984 #2295419
    datafuser
    Participant

    Dornier had much more advanced designs on the drawing board than that!

    http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1467.0
    http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=35568

    It does sound optimistic… But using those engines, the Israeli Phantom 2000 is said to have gone over mach 1 without using the afterburner.
    http://www.f-4.nl/f4_35.html

    When you consider affordability, more advanced designs equate to higher prices, which should have weighed heavily on India, who was not very rich 30 years ago.

    in reply to: Dornier's light fighter design for India in 1984 #2295480
    datafuser
    Participant

    BTW I’m not sure about the US okay’ing the sale of a Northrop-Dornier design with cutting-edge PW engines to India in the 80’s. Dornier probably offered one of their own designs.

    Perhaps a Super Alpha Jet???

    in reply to: Dornier's light fighter design for India in 1984 #2295481
    datafuser
    Participant

    Other articles say the engines were non-afterburning PW1120. (The Lavi/Super Phantom engines.) N&D claimed the design would be capable of mach 2.

    http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/archive/index.php?t-49792.html
    http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=30788

    BTW I’m not sure about the US okay’ing the sale of a Northrop-Dornier design with cutting-edge PW engines to India in the 80’s. Dornier probably offered one of their own designs.

    Being able to reach Mach 2 without afterburners means this could have been a true supercruiser.

    in reply to: Dornier's light fighter design for India in 1984 #2295541
    datafuser
    Participant

    According to two Flight articles in 1982 and 1984, the 20,000-25,000lb ND-102 was to be powered by two non-afterburning turbofans developing 16,000lb each.

    Such engines were to be sourced from the US Advanced Tactical Fighter project.

    BTW, does “a 20,000-25,000lb fighter” mean its combat weight will be between 20,000 to 25,000 lbs? Or empty weight?

    in reply to: Dornier's light fighter design for India in 1984 #2295549
    datafuser
    Participant

    And it looks to me like they has started to consider RCS reduction too.

    I find it funny that in some of these early German designs the RCS reduction is perhaps more apparent than in the Typhoon that finally emerged…

    I like to thing its a more subtle approach.

    Specifically, what RCS reduction measures do you see in the ND-102 design?

    in reply to: Turkish Air Force – News & Discussion #2295742
    datafuser
    Participant

    The concept definition phase is underway but local defence media reports that it is going to be air defence / interceptor focused aircraft to supplement F-35.

    No info wheher it would be a single- or twin-engined design?

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 347 total)