TR1I was looking more from cockpit perspective , in good old IL-76 they have 3 men in the cockpit two pilots and 1 flight engineer , if there is one less crew in the cockpit it would mean they have done away with the flight engineer.
The IL-476 does have an all new glass cockpit so it is possible they do not need a 3rd person in there. The other people are the loader and support staff.
Not exactly what you are looking for, but nevertheless:
http://www.techavia.ru/img/033.jpg
possible the cockpit of the new plane.
TR1Damn sorry for continuing off topic, my last word on Mig-29 I promise:
After the fleet was grounded, they checked the aircraft and around 70 were deemed in need of repairs, and were grounded; the rest of the fleet was fine, I am not sure where the 70% figure comes from. As an aside, some of the grounded aircraft have been seen flying again, for example this 9-12 was one of the examples grounded, and has been photographed with obvious tail replacement :
http://spotters.net.ua/file/?id=22553
It is also one of the few 9-12s left in Russia.
Regarding MiG-29SMT, the number is over 30. See:
http://mdb.cast.ru/mdb/3-2010/item1/article1/
Cheers,
Sorry for OT.
TR1does that mean Canada should have a bigger air force than Israel 🙂
well as far as new Russian technology goes..
India has more T-90 tanks than Russia
India has more advanced Flanker variants than Russia
India has more advanced Fulcrum variants than Russia
India has more advanced Russian designed frigates than Russia
etc
Just a few nitpicks 🙂 ,
India does indeed have more T-90s than Russia, but the margin is not large (hundred and fifty vehicles or so). If we look at the current Russian T-90A domestic production rates (62 vehicles yearly minimum, I doubt it will increase past that any time soon), and the fact that India is switching to domestic production under license (and this domestic production is nowhere near 62 vehicles per year) then I think it is likely the numbers will balance out within the next 5 years or less.
Regarding the Fulcrum, Russia’s fleet is certainly more potent than the Indian one. That may change when we consider the MiG-29 fleet modernization India is planning, but as of now 90% of their airframes are run of the mill 9-12s….well add a few MiG-29Ks (Russia is also due to receive this aircrfat, though at a bit smaller number). The RuAF meanwhile has the 34 MiG-29SMTs in its fleet, as well a small number of MiG-29S (anywhere from a dozen to 20), but the majority of the “vanilla” fleet is still the 9-13 variant, better than the Indian 9-12s.
-TR1
TR1no problem my british friend. it is a statement he made in 07
http://www.domain-b.com/defence/air_space/iaf/20091209_fighter_tests_oneView.htmland the quote
Sukhoi director, Mikhail Pogosyan, was quoted as saying, “We [India and Russia] will share the funding, engineering and intellectual property in a 50-50 proportion.”
Thanks for the link, as I suspected it was about the FGFA, not the PAK-FA program as a whole.
TR1hello there kind sir,
India contributes half the funding for the Pak-fa program as our Armenian friend said himself. Unlikely India will have to pay much more. But what the others say is true.. Russia’s land neighbors are impotent except for China which it has a decent relationship with. India has two hated neighbors. The drive for them to waste money on new jets is there. Also Russia is willing to buy Su-35S to make up numbers.
Good day!
Could you link me to the specific Pogosyan quote, reason I ask is to determine exactly what he meant (to the extent that we can) regarding Indian funding – it is rather well known up to this day Indian funding/contribution to PAKFA has been zero, all Russian project. Indian contribution from now on maybe extensive, certainly regarding the “Indianized version” (though it will not be that different from Russian variants IMO), or a twin seater, but the core of the aircraft development is an all Russian affair…at least at this point and in immediate future.
Regarding Su-35S there is strong indication of another bath of similar size (48 airframes) to be ordered at the completion of the current order in 2015. Past that (2020 time frame) though there is no guerentee Su-35S will be ordered.
Cheers,
TR1
TR1Why would it be surprising if IAF got more T-50s than Russia?? Can’t see the logic here. I allways expected India to field a bigger force. Just as they do today with (cutting edge) Flankers. After all, its a nation with a population that is 10x that of Russia.
And its just good for Russia. Lots of export dollars, plus it will be a considerable (formidable) military threat to Chinas southern flank. Wich in turn will weaken Chinas ability to build up forces along its northen borders.
The logic is simple. While Rodolpho has solid points, I still maintain Russia is certain to operate more. The “cutting edge” Flanker argument is moot IMO, the reason India acquired so many was the outdated nature of much of its air force. Russia faced no such proposition in the 1990s and early 2000s, and as such the lack of ability to buy modern Flankers (caused by economic starvation of the time and general poor state of the nation) did not result in any critical gaps in the Air Force. That is not the case with PAK-FA, which is clearly needed to replace the legacy Mig-29, Su-27, Mig-31 units that will largely disapear by 2020. The PAK-FA is the priority project of the air force, and when we factor in:
1.) domestic price
2.) much earlier delivery time than exports
3.) defense budget is nominally leaps and bounds above that in the past 15 years (when India was acquiring cutting edge Flankers), and is certainly implemented more effectively today. The economic situation today cannot be compared to that of ~15-10 years ago.
IMO it becomes clear Russia will operate more airframes. Perhaps the numbers will be close though. India’s population has no bearing on this, defense budgets do, force intentions do.
Anyways we will see within a few decades. Procurement of other airframes by both Air Forces in the upcoming decade will go a long way towards determining both purchasing capability and actual 5th gen fighter need past 2020.
Cheers,
TR1
TR1Up to 250 for Russia. Anyway, 300 for India is a not surprising data. Afterwards the Indian GDP, in a PPP basis, is bigger than the Russian one.
The more relevant figure here is defense budget, which is much larger in Russia, in addition it seems set to continue increasing gradually. Factoring in the much cheaper domestic acquisition price for PAK-FA, and the priority of the project, IMO Russia will field more PAK-FAs than any other nation.
TR1according to Ria Novosti’s site, India is set to buy around 300 Pak-Fa, making it potentially the largest Pak-fa operator in the future! 😮
Russia will without a doubt be the largest operator, considering force numbers that need to be met when legacy aircraft start completely winding down around 2020. Impressive numbers for the Indians as well though. Looks like PAK-FA will be the true Mig-21/Su-30MKI succesor in terms of proportion of the fleet
TR1Its “near identical” not “identical” ….. there is a subtle difference 😉
That is why I put it in quotation marks ;).
Cheers,
TR1
TR1Good news, however they will be great news if the other 2 missiles made to “identical” specifications are launched in a successful manner as well.
TR1“As far as I am aware the Indian AWACs are more capable than their Pak counterparts”
followed by
“Did I say otherwise?”
No emotion here at all, but why don’t you try and get your arguments aligned properly, or try not going back on what you say. Otherwise pretty hard debating anything with you really.
You seem to have reading comprehension problems, not to even start on your debating tactics (or lack of). Yes, I said as far as I am aware India’s Phalcon is more capable than Pak AWACs. For a number of reasons including the ones posted above by another poster. I did not ever say it was massively superior.
TR1How is claiming Mistral/RBS-70 are more avdanced then Igla dubious? Do you genuinely know the difference between the systems or are you just saying this out of a misplaced sense of pride?
Typically one brings Pride into the argument when one is suffering from issues related to it. I am not Indian or Pakistani so I could care less to be honest. Anyways, please feel free to back this up with information. In addition, you may be surprised to know there are multitudes of Igla variants, and India’s recent purchases can be reasonably assumed to be late models. These are very potent missiles. Certainly RBS-70 has advantages (greater range for one) but that comes at a price (weight and mobility). Saying Igla “does not compare” is silly.For Pakistans size, the PAF fleet is large enough. PAF has always assumed it will always be outnumbered by IAF.
In other words, it is heavily disadvantaged, making the high end SAM gap even more critical. Funny how you fall back upon “for Pakistan its big enough” while jumping quickly to criticize anything related to the IAF.Spyder range is 15km V SPADA 25km range. Assuming you can do math?
MBDA lists Spada range as around 20km. Spyder can utilize two missiles, the Python 5 and the Derby. The Python 5 achieves 15 kilometer range, the Derby will naturally be significantly more, given the A2A performance of the two compared side to side (given that in A2A P5 achieves something under 20km, while Derby does around 50 km.
Both Erieye and Phalcon have strenghths and weaknesses. I would not say one is massively better then the other.
Did I say otherwise?
Please, a little less emotion.
Cheers,
TR1
TR11) Pakistan will not just have Anza. As I have mentioned three times
now. RBS-70, Stinger and Mistral as well. Igla does simply not compareLike most of your claims, this is rather dubious.
5) Ditto above regarding high level SAMs. As I mentioned PAF have a gap in this area, but this will be well covered by its interceptors
Given the total inferiority to India in terms of A2A aircraft, I fail to see how this is well covered
6) Incorrect on Spyder. Its range is actually shorter then that of SPADA 2000.
How so? Spada range is around 20km, that is essentially what the Python 5 on the SPYDER can achieve, and certainly significantly less than the Derby manages.
10) As of now India had a total of just 3 AWACs being delivered and 2 on order. No more. That is simply not enough for a country of Indias size, and it seems future coverage will depend on their own home grown system. I dont think we can make any guesses on this yet. This does not compare well to Pakistan (a 5th of Indias size) and its 8 various systems being delivered this year. In terms of AWACs coverage that is the story
Why the certainty India will not acquire more? Either way, the AWACS are not needed for the entirety of India, just the border areas with potential adversaries, making your point moot at best. As far as I am aware the Indian AWACs are more capable than their Pak counterparts.
cheers,
TR1
On the subject, I am very curious if we will see an Indian S-400 sometime within the next 5-7 years, after initial production for the Russia is complete.
TR1For any Su-34 enthusiasts:
http://paralay.iboards.ru/download/file.php?style=12&id=10865&mode=view
Su-34s armored capsule.
TR1actually closer to just 32, prove it wrong my furry friend
http://www.key.aero/view_news.asp?ID=1421&thisSection=militaryDon’t worry, you still have your Su-34..coming in at 1 or 2 per year.
That is incorrect. As of November 2009, there were: 24 Su-27SMs in two separate units (48) and an additional 5 at Lipetsk, bringing the total to 53. Take away one that crashed, we are left with 52 airframes as of a year ago.
I got the numbers from Vzlet Magazine, December 2009 issue.
Regarding Su-34 production rates, incorrect again. This year the number delivered will total 6 (2 earlier, 4 more in december), afterwords yearly production for the current order (32 airframes) will be maintained at 8-12 per year, supposedly 8-9 being a probably number for 2011. Source is the poster nike8887 from several Russian forums (Paralays, airforce.ru), he works at NAPO and is always an excellent source of Su-34 info.
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