tphuangNo they wouldn’t. It is a perfectly legitimate action and has been going on for decades. The PRC has routinely been subject to periphery intelligence collection flights for years. It isn’t illegal and the Chinese leave them alone. They have no jurisdiction to harrass them in international airspace. The same applies if the Chinese were to mount say Tu-154 int collection flights down the western seaboard of the US. Totally hypothetical as the PRC has no need or desire to do so and the range would be a bit of a struggle.
Absolutely nothing would happen apart from internationally agreed interceptions by fighter aircraft. For anything else to occur would result in a tit-for-tat occurrence against U.S. flights off the PRC coast. The US doesn’t want any of its flights interfered with, so why would they interfere with any nation conducting intelligence missions from international airspace?
The Russians fly strategic nuclear capable bombers upto the periphery of North American airspace so why should an intelligence collection flight generate any different reaction?
TJ
If I’m not mistaken, US has the 200 nm shoot-down zone. So, it would be different if a Chinese aircraft flew that close.
tphuangTime to burn your little red book buddy. The real World is sometimes shocking, but always more interesting.
Oh if the PLAAF placed an order, for say, 60 Su-35s would you still feel the same about J-11’s ‘capabilities’?
if plaaf places an order of 60 su-35. They have no more need to buy indigenous J-11s.
tphuangMaybe we should ask the PLAAF officers gleefully clamoring all over Irbis-E at MAKS’07, all day & every day? or were they just checking which components could be easily pirated?
there is nothing wrong with examining and studying someone else’s product. But let’s see, has China bought anything from you guys recently? A little hard to take, huh?
tphuangcan you show me J-11B with new wide angle gree HUD pictures. Alteast that seems upgrade. the rest is just all talk. ur still importing engines and IRST.
well I uploaded a bunch of photos, it shows the IRST, MAWs, the wide angled holographic HUD, the cockpit and the FBW. In case you are wondering about the HUD on the cockpit photo, that’s the old cockpit. We are not importing any engines for J-11B. Get it? That 180 engine imported was for replacements on our current fleet of imported flankers.
tphuangSo the WS-10A is neither powerful & reliable enough for J-10 (chinese chief test pilot’s words), but it’s ok for J-11?
WS-10A is used on many J-10s this past year, there was a huge ramp up in production starting last October. That article you are talking about was talking about WS-10, not the WS-10A as is known now.
A pirated planar-array ‘Zhuk’ from the early 90s shoe-horned onto the J-11 is close in capability to the Irbis-E?
who told you it is a pirated planar array? You think if it was a pirated copy, they would still need to test it the Y-8 radar testbed for like 2 years? Stopped making stuff up.
Iirc, Jane’s reported some years ago that MiG was heavily involved in china’s next-gen. fighter with heavy 1.42 input, time will tell- no doubt.
What does Jane know? Half of its Chinese articles are rubbish. This is the same magazine that said 054A has 2 FCRs.
They only just decided late last year up at plaaf that the design work for 5th generation plane is going to CAC.
Oh, why is TsAGI contractually working on 2 chinese fighters if china’s industry is so advanced. I mean, by now they should be well versed on prince charlie’s CFD packages right?
huh?
J-11 is closer to ’27SM, not even the same league as ’35BM, the closest capability analogy I would make is like comparing an F-18C to the Super Hornet.
do you know the radar performance of J-11b? Do you know that it is using fiber optics communications? Do you know about the upgraded WS-10A that will be in production in a couple of years?
tphuangDo you have data about that? Otherwise that are contradicting claims most of the time. To use some composite in some places may shed a few percent in weight at best, but do not bolster life of the airframe in general. Treating the intakes to reduce RCS will rise weight for sure, when the effect of that is limited due to the layout. To ease the temper, the Su-35BM do face the same problems.
What are those slightly more powerful and reliable engines?
The engines of the Su-35BM are quoted with 14500 kp in overspeed mode, when normal max AB is ~14000 kp f.e.. 😉
the more powerful engine is WS-10A, although it’s not more reliable engine.
a lot of weight reduction comes from using lighter digital avionics
Can a chinese rip-off of a MiG 1.44 be classed as 5G?….it’s Lavi all over again!
what are you talking about?
tphuangI thought it was nearly 1000 Km for a 3m^2 target??
isn’t it just amazing what the Russians would claim about their radar? It’s interesting how underwhelming they are in practice.
tphuangSu-27SM is not the same thing as Su-27SKM. It has uprated 13.5 ton engine, new FBW, LCDs, EW, IRST, 4000Km range and fully multirole with 8 tons payload. China still imports IRST.
I havent seen J-11B cockpit only the new HUD in yellow primer so more like test aircraft and there are plently of test aircraft at Sukhoi.
China imported a couple of sets of irst, that’s it. J-11B is using domestic version or copy (depending on who you ask). We’ve seen J-11B in an active regiment already (if you ever goto flanker thread on SDF/CDF, you’d see them)
As for 10 years from now, who still cares about flankers? It should be all about 5th generation plane.
tphuangHmmm…disadvantages(?) like range/time-on-station, superior radar, supercruise, weapons load etc.etc. besides I wasn’t aware that “excessive weight and size” were pre-requisites for the finest 4th generation fighter design- acknowledged by all university engineering depts. worth their salt.
Are you privy to info the RMAF weren’t during their evaluation?
hmm, there was no indication anywhere that RMAF was offered the latest super hornet with APG-79 and such.
su-35 has its advantages, but the missiles that it uses are just far behind what’s available in the Western planes. PLAAF will tell you that, lol.
su-35 can supercruise. In tests it supercruised in clean config at mach 1.1 and the pilot in his interview said it could have gone faster but since they are still in the early part of test flights we was not allowed to accelerate to full speed.
normally you want to get past the transonic period before stating that it has supercruise capability. wait until it reaches mach 1.3
tphuangso do u think with $55 per barrel oil they didnot increase airfares in past 4 years?
and Oil is not the only component of Aircraft operating costs just like labor is not the only component of Gorskhov cost.
actually, I was wrong, it’s southwest airline that got this great deal.
South West did not sign any contract that said they will hold the price for customers at a certain level. Russia signed a contract. South West airline does not sell a ticket and then a week later saying that they can’t deliver at that price anymore. You don’t understand the most basic ethical business conduct.
tphuangsurely i do but hedging in this case will never work. It is one off unique project. No commercial entity can hedge against such dramatic rise in prices/currency fluctuataion thats why Airlines have either to massively increase the ticket prices or go bankrupt.
ever heard about the deal that American Airline got? They are getting gas for $55 a barrel right now. That’s what you get if you run your finances properly.
tphuangThey have certainly made the logical decision. Just wait for cost over runs for CVF.
It is just more than 50% increase in ruble/dollar exchange, more than 1000% in wage growth and 400% change in steel/energy prices that change the context.
Even if they had done the due diligence. you cannot ignore such a big change in economic reality.
$1B in aircraft carrier projects is peanuts.
No European carrier can give them Supersonic antiship/antiradiation missile strike power of MIG-29K nor the offered upgrade of 3D TVC. There is option of further MIG-29K.
Nope. Indian defence officials have accepted the reality.
it continuously amaze me that you show such little knowledge of finances and modern commercial practice.
Ever heard of hedging your investment? Obviously not and the Russians clearly haven’t either.
tphuangMore like asking for J10s for free. At this point or anytime in the forseeable future, I think North Korea would be extremely luckly to get basic JF17s. J10s are completely out of the question since CAC is barely building them fast enough for the PLAAF, and there are already a few foreign countries expressing interest who are far more suitable buyers politically, and who are willing to pay good money for the planes.
No, I can’t see North Korea getting J10s short of them trading in their nukes for them, which isn’t going to happen.
I don’t think production is as much of an issue anymore, but North Korea isn’t going to get any J-10s. They got some J-7Gs recently and they can’t even operate that. What are they going to do when they get on a J-10?
tphuangyou’re totally twisting the truth !
the requirement from the IAF was for a light fighter to replace the MiG-21..they laid down the ASRs, and were not the least bit concerned about what technology existed in India, that was to be the headache of those who were to build the LCA.
Indian designers knew what thrust specifications the Kaveri had to meet..if it did’nt have to power a medium weight fighter like the J-10, why the hell would its thrust have to be higher than the F-404? its only now, after extensive flight testing that the IAF feels that the F-404 does’nt meet its thrust needs and that there is a requirement for a higher thrust engine. besides, GTRE could’ve easily taken Russian help to develop a RD-33 or AL-31 derivative if it wanted to and used the RD-33 for the Tejas prototypes. instead they chose the to develop a more western like engine and for the prototypes, chose the F-404, which is extremely reliable and closely matched the specs they’d set for the Kaveri.
also, there has been extensive requirement creep in the program due to the fact that the Tejas is now meant to be a lot more than a simple MiG-21 replacement. its avionics are top notch and in many instances better than any current IAF fighter, including the Su-30MKI.
if the Chinese are so whizbang at the cutting edge of technology, why’re they still buying AL-31s and not developing a Al-41 type WS whatever?? fact is that they’ve learnt a lot from the Russians and their own engine building capabilities were very modest till now.
oh boy. They are buying AL-31 in limited number because WS-10A production level is getting ramped up and also because it’s a far more mature engine than WS-10A. But at the current time, both J-11B and J-10s are using WS-10A. Although in the case of J-10, it’s a split between WS-10A and AL-31FN. After all, F-16 have the choice of F-100 series or F-110 series. J-10 have that choice too. As for not developing AL-41, that’s just your assumption. Their WS-15 project is well along right now and will be ready around the time 5th gen AC comes out.
You sound a little insecure about the achievement of DRDO, but that’s no reason to insult China.
The Kaveri may instead be compared with the JF-17’s RD-93 engine or the planned WS-13A engine. The Kaveri has superior dry and wet thrust as compared to both of them.
so, i guess you have never heard of WS-12?
tphuangChinese reports? Most of it is just nonsense.
you just can’t accept truth, that’s your problem.
First they are not inferior and Second i am talking about manufacturing in China in 90s. And I am not ignorant. China cannot make even ARJ-21 by itself let alone some thing bigger 15 years ago.
alright, why is nobody buying these Russian aircrafts then? Why do the Russians need to create a smaller superjet 100 just to break into the Western market? Clearly, these are not built to modern commercial airliner standards. There is a huge difference between airliner and transports. I don’t even see how ARJ-21 is fitting in this conversation. It’s not a transport, it’s an airliner.
It is the misplaced priorities of PLA like making a stunt of sending man into space or developing J-10 instead of what was needed in 90s and was available at low cost.
this has to be the stupidest thing that you’ve said. That China should neglect the most important two projects in its technological field so that it can have more of an army aviation wing? We abandon the future of our air force just so that we can buy more of your mi-17s? You do realize that they bought over 200 of them, right? You do realize the army and the air force and the space all have their separate budget, right?
You dont have any data to back it up. and new MI-171/Ka-32 are also very costly.
the cost part or the tibet elevation part? the second, i have a poster proving that. Ka-32 is a different story, but the Mi-171 we get is definitely cheaper than Z-8.
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