here is the exact english version. Now where it is written that all 36 planes will come by end of 2008. it can be a Single or two plane. so based on that u cannot dismiss the whole article when Russian version is giving much later date.

That’s what I said, there is no way 1 or 2 plane can get delivered by end of 2008 when they just started negotiating for the plane. No deal has been signed at all. I did not argue anywhere against 36 planes coming at end of 2008.

Read the whole Kommersant article which states Choppers and Dual use stuff is allowed. So only J-10 engine is left. which directly goes against WS-10.

again, I never argued against PAF might get AL-31F with J-10. The deal has not been signed. How would I know what engine it’s going to get. I argued against Pakistan can get the plane by end of 2008 or 2009, because they just started the discussion.

I want to find that domistic engine for K-8. Export is irrevlant. And here we are talking about the lowest parameters in engine technology.

It’s stated by L-15 developer that new JL-8s are using WS-11 and that they are not as powerful as the export engines in an interview. Again, the original argument was not about how good WS-11 is, but whether or not JL-8 is using domestic engine.

I never said that RD-33 is unreliable be it old or New. it just had short life in Past and than u bring Spey engine for comparision without Knowing RD-33 service with PLAAF. u can only make logical comparisions with same time frame and same price. like Spey built in 2003 with RD-33 built in 2003. Not the RD-33 built in early 80s with Spey service in 21st century.

I’m talking about the second hand Spey that we got in the 90s, so they were most likely built in the 70s or 80s.

It is about viability and profits of enterpize. when u import components from higher wage countries with there profit in built u not only unable to learn anything but make cost escalation than u have to make creative leases to sell it airlines which creates further debts.

well, since you are giving this lecture to AVIC, why don’t you ask sukhoi why they are getting a Snecma engine for RRJ instead of a pure Russian developed engine? Or why a civil helicopter like ANSAT is using P&W engine?

u didnot fully understood the article.
They may simply want Russian Fighers/Weopons/Systems. In that case J-10 deal is either OFF or there will be Russian Avionics/Radar like Zhuk-AESA/IRST in addition to Engines. and it is not necessay that Avionics are decided before the contract. they can do it separately. Rian did better translation into english. and it is kommesant source delivery late 2009 which is not unreasonable. so ur statement that Kommersant article is rubbish has proven wrong. and Russians can certainly make much more money by selling directly instead of getting only $164m from engines which will offend India anyway.

so basically, you now admit the article that you posted is translated incorrectly. Where has it been proven wrong. You post an article and I say that’s inaccurate. Now, you tell me there is another source? Why don’t you post the one that you think is correct first?

I can tell you late 2009 is a wishwash too. Again, have you ever heard of a deal for 40 fighters (not 36 as posted) that took just 2 years from the discussion started to the first set of deliveries? Especially when there has not been any previous export version of that fighter and the buying country is inducting 2 other classes at the same time? You don’t use the basic logic, do you?

first u claimed the whole article is wrong. but when i posted news from other sources now u change the position.

What the heck are you talking about, I wrote this.
“well, this article is clearly just rubbish. They have just started the talk on the purchase of 40 (not 36) J-10s and according to star49, that means the journalist must be right here.”
commenting on this.
“If the delivery is to be done till end of 2009, I fully believe the exported 36 J10 will not be powered by any more Russian engine, it’s not up to Russian’s decision to export AL31FN to Pakistan or not but till that time, China is able to provide enough WS-10A for J-10. As the integration of WS-10A to J-10 is happening now, this year, the CAC is doing the job, and by 2009, it’s in time to supply J10 with Chinese developed WS-10A.”
I was clearly talking about this section of the article that you posted.

and how many K-8 newly inducted into PLAAF based on those engines. and why not mentioned anywhere for export for such a low tech engine.

I don’t have exact figures on how many JL-8s there are. And why should China mention anything if they are not getting exported? It’s on huitong’s site if you are wondeirng.

China does not use RD-33 in its airforce so how can it know it is reliable or not? and Unreliable means sudden breakdowns=crashes. which is not case with RD-33. u are confusing Reliability with maintainability. old RD-33 had short life and needs replacement thats why not easy to maintain but theywere certainly reliable as mention by German airforce pilot.

I did not say anywhere that RD-33 is equipped with plaaf. You asked for a smoky Russian engine, I told you a smoky Russian engine.

offcourse. those are for Chinese domestic public. what else he can say just like putting Plate on top of IL-76.

why would China be getting your Russian FBW, if they developed their own quadriplex digital FBW already and has already been used for years and shown its reliability on J-10?

what has avionics anything to do with engines. RD-93 was selected engine of FC-1 since 1993 long before anything about avionics. avionics change every year but not engine.

Again, you don’t seem to be reading. They just started talking, avionics is part of the talk and they are going for 40 J-10s according to PAF ACM. They have to yet to decide what form of J-10 PAF will get and when it will get it. How can J-10 be delivered by 2008? It’s entirely ridiculous.

And those orders mostly with Honeywell engines for export.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2000/02/29/62658/egypt-shops-in-china-for-trainer.html
http://www.catic.com.cn/en/Product_Server/products_intro.asp?list=&Content_id=2469&TypeTreeID=1834

Yes, but they have many export orders for K-8, those imported engines are for export orders.

Because few preproduction engines of Series-2 were provided since 1999-2000 for FC-1 prototypes with 1400 hr life. and this FC-1 has been on drawing board for a decade. So using old engines for prototypes is not out of question.
that is how L-15 is described. Engine/FBW/Design is foreign. Only LCD screen maybe local. 6 more engines were provided last year.

you asked which engine is smoky, I told you one. L-15’s FBW is local, developed with help of 603 and 611. All Yakolev said was that it gave assistance to the L-15 design, but didn’t say how much. Heck, if they are willing to sell the entire design and Hongdu can profit from it, that’s their own stupidity.

Hasn’t TY-90 got a much smaller engagement envelope than SA-19? TY-90 as an AAM from helicopters has what 7km or there abouts so as a SAM without additional booster, what 5km????

They have several choices, QW-3, QW-4 are among them. And there is the other question of whether it’s better to do that or to put Type 730 and some future VLS version of HH-7 on the same ship. You are going to get much better performance that way.

these things have direct relationships as these things were not publicly revealed like this before. Specially aftermath of A-50. and they are not clearly hinting to particular ship that u seem to deduce.

I know exactly what the existing PLAN ships are using. I don’t need wise cracks from you.

so basically, everytime from now on that you want to argue that China bought something from the Russians, but have no evidence what so ever, you are going to bring up A-50 story, which has no credibility what so ever, to say that the reason we haven’t seen any evidence source of it is that they are deliberately hiding it. And of course, now you are going to argue that the A-50 story has credibility so that you can attempt to “win” in this argument by taking the argument further and further away from the original topic that (054A does not use shtil) and hopefully eventually I will drop that you were wrong to butt in.

how is MKI airsuperiority fighter alone. what all thos Kh-31/35/59/Kabs and future Brahmos. or extend it further into klubir/36/38.
Flanker/Fulcrum/F-16/MIG-35/F-18/EF/Rafale. All have 5 heavy stations. Only Flanker does not need external fuel tanks to get decent range and can be refuelled much further from battlefield. and u dont need sluggish fighter to go in and out from battlefield.

“flankers do not need external fuel tanks to get decent range”
This is su-34, not su-30, without external fuel tank.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/su34/specs.html

Range Near Ground Radius of Action, 900km/h, Normal Combat Load, Internal Fuel Tanks 600km

It is clearly written for Chinese ships. not Russian ships exported to China. and Russia is no longer in need of exports so current news have more truth than previous ones. and also look at 4 A-50s. Aslo there is mention of Smerch. Total of $26B worth of arms out of which Sukhoi got $9.3B.

I don’t even know why you are bringing up A-50 again, since this has absolutely nothing to do with it. I don’t know why are bringing up smerch, since that has nothing to do with this. I don’t know why you are mentionning what sukhoi got, since it has absolutely nothing to do with this.

And after reading the sources you wrote, it mentionned some Chinese ships equipped with shtil-1, clearly that’s talking about 052B. Now, if you are so good at finding obscure Russian sources, why don’t you find one that says Russia is exporting 6 VLU shtil systems to China.

Just of of curiosity why do you think India is going to select the Super Hornet?

They certainly don’t need another air superiority aircraft, they got MKI for that. Purchasing super hornets would give IAF an entire arsenal of ground attack munitions that no one else in the competition can match. And I don’t think I need to mention the avionics of super hornet.