MondarizHi David,
I’ve got to pick you up on the “fizzing like an asprin” comment.
I was a dive instructor and took quite a few trainee divers round the
Viscount and Wessex in Stoney Cove. Both are in excellent structural condition and quite comparable with neglected long term external exhibits in shore collections.
Regards
Ross
What do you base that statement on?
Besides the outside of the fuselage, an aircraft consists of quite a number of structural components of various alloys. Most of them are not treated in the same protective manner, as the outside fuselage. While an aircraft might seem more or less intact, you can be sure, that its internal structure is will be damaged considerably.
Seawater can damage an aircraft beyond repair (not restoration), in just a few days.
Freshwater might not be so hard on the alloy, but it would depend on the chemical consistency of the water.
underwater aircraft wrecks do tend to decay slower than those above water given a similar maintenance routine.
Would that be why USAF store aircraft in the desert?
Water is the last place you would want to store an aircraft, even if you might come across a sunshine story now and again.
MondarizThanks.
Nice clear picture.
I’ll get right on it, but might take a little while, as i need to get the letter translated (got Spanish relatives).
Hopefully we can get more info soon.
MondarizSimon could you try to get a shot from Google earth and post it here?
I will try to contact a newspaper in Hermasillo, to see if i can tickle their repporter-bone a bit. Maybe we can get some kind of confirmation, or at least find out where they moved her.
I need the picture to pin-point the location.
MondarizAlways a shame to see planes being wasted.
BUT, we can hope that a few site divers, takes a shine to aircraft diving, and one day actually brings a lost plane back.
Thats how a large number of pacific wrecks are discovered/retrived.
MondarizYes, but Ian Foster of 57Rescue used to have a blade from a Spearfish as well. Could be this one even, I’ll ask him.
Cees
That would be an easy way to solve it 🙂
It might be worth noting, that the seller (describing himself as a collector of WW2 relics) seems to think its from a Spit.
Either way, its a nice piece of warbird gear (for all us, who can’t afford a real AC).
MondarizIf it is 44-23015 it has a fantastic history.
As N6989C it was one of the original jet-pack test-aircrafts, used by Steward-Davis Inc.
But it was also the AC used in the movie “The Flight of the Phoenix” in 1965.
Most likely N6989C was scrapped in the mid 1970, but who knows.
MondarizIts a Lockheed 18 Lodestar (now CF-CPA).
History.
USAAF SN:42-108787 Lockheed C-60 Lodestar (Civilian Model 18-56 impressed by USAAF). Originally intended for transfer to RAF as Lodestar Mk II, but all were retained by USAAF.
Released to Canadian Pacific Air Lines and later purchased by E.D. Bourque Aerial Photography of Ottawa, who in 1960 belly-landed it where you see it.
Sitting in a swamp 100 miles north of Schefferville, Quebec.
The AC is being recovered and restored by:
MondarizRA10231 Spitfire 21. Probably not this as it should be a Hydulignum blade and the one on E-Bay is a Jablo blade.
At least the Mk 21 prototypes DP851, PP139 and LA187 had Jablo blades.
However, they were to to Drg. No. RA.10129/JJ.
I would lean towards a Spit, since having a blade from a Spearfish seems unlikely, as only 5 were made.
MondarizHere are a few US leads.
CHEETA ENGINE • $1,500 • FOR SALE • Armstrong-Sidley cheetah engine, 7 cyls. has some damage on a couple of the heads. on mount. • Contact Robert C. Hood – located Carthage, MO USA • Telephone: 417-793-9732 • Posted September 1, 2007
P&W R1340 & H2DA. PROP • $14,900 • FOR SALE • Complete firewall forward off of Thrush . P&W R1340 AN1, 1406 hrs smo from Covington & Ham. Standard H2DA40, AG 100-2 blades, exh. system, baffles, 60amp alt, , carb., mags, starter, harness, fuel pump, gov,110v oil tank, engine mount, etc. Running, no damage or prop strike. • Contact Phil Stout – located Ephrata, WA USA • Telephone: 509 398 7222 • Posted July 22, 2007
RANGER SGV-770-1 INVERTED V12 ENGINES • $5,000 • AVAILABLE FOR SALE • 2 Ranger SGV-770-1 Inverted V12 engines plus parts inventory. They are rated at 520 hp each and are still in the crate. $5,000 for both plus the parts inventory. Have all the manuals, parts and operation and pilot hand book. These engines were used on the Fairchild AT-21 Gunner. Also availible is a WW II parts inventory including P51 fuel guages, bomb sighting devices, and much more. • Contact Michael J. Toman – located Painesville, OH USA • Telephone: 440-759-1880 • Fax: 440-975-0111
Why not buy a whole AC.
T-28 PROJECT • $65,000 • FOR SALE • Big engine T-28A R1. 3-bladed Super B prop, airplane is complete and assembled. Last flown 22 years ago and has been hangared since. No logs. Motivated Seller!!!!! Price reduced to $65,000!!! • Contact Ed VanReeth – located Huntley, IL USA • Telephone: 847-669-3963 •
A Hurricane complete with Merlin engine 40K £…
HAWKER HURRICANE • $80,000 • ACCEPTING OFFERS • Hawker Hurricane project NO data plate history verified by recovery agent. Word document lists everything . Has Good canopy, two frames, tail , all the wood. Merlin XX static seat UC wheels centre section Controls loads more. Best offer exceeding £40K secures. PLS NO time wasters dreamers scammers • VISIT MY WEBSITE • Contact Graham Adlam – located Taunton, UK • Telephone: 07803259507 •
MondarizG-SIXC, Malmo. Wasn’t you, was it?
That aircraft was repaired in accordance with a repair scheme provided by the manufacturer. Back in the 1960s someone cut an even bigger hole on the other side and stuck a cargo door in it. Just like on A300s, B757s, ATPs…
Glad we all stayed friends in the end. 😉
No, if i ever make a hole that size in an AC, i will be sure to remember the reg. Also, my toolbox would have ripped the nose off.
And yes, the repair was fine…just don’t pressurise her (only joking).
MondarizI think you will find that SA is in fine condition. I know the Mr Firth personally, and know absolutely if he had any doubt regards the airworthiness, he would not get in it!
Maybe your memory Mondariz is hazy, as you may have worked on one of those Electras they had. Many of which have been scrapped.I would suggest retracting your allegations, for they are nothing more than that.
DXB Driver
I do know the difference between a Lockheed Electra and a DC 6.
One of us have been crawling under the floorboards of the DC 6 in question. I will let that be my final entry on this thread, as i don’t intend to start a flame-war.
Oh, i also remember the AC had a rather large repair on the forward starboard fuselage (in line with the engine), as someone had once knocked a toolbox through it (was hit by a prop during engine run). Looking at Airliners.net pictures, i can find on such repair on the G-APSA pictures, so i guess it was another AA DC 6, but a DC 6 it was.
MondarizWhy don’t you look at a RR Meteor engine (from the Centurion tank). That engine is basically a RR Merlin with the supercharger removed.
They are affordable (used alot in tractor-pull) and can be made to “simulate” a real Merlin (maybe even converted to one).
I know i would love one, if i had the space.
MondarizThe last info i can find is:
http://www.cnapg.org/vw1573.htm#Vintage%20and%20Warbird%20Aircraft.
Although this was before it went on sale.
I have not contacted any current operators, as i was hoping they would read this forum and reply.
MondarizMondariz
I am glad you have replyied to Cloudmaster, when I first read your comment it seemed you did not know any thing about aircraft engineering,with your follow up you do seem to know a little.
I have been in aviation over thirty years and seen how aircraft are stripped down on major checks and put back together.
A British registered aircraft will come under the CAA and the CAA inspector will not sign off the aircraft if things are not 100 per cent, where as third world aicraft get away with things and this is why you see that aircraft are banded from flying in Europe, as there standards of Airwothness are not up to par with European and even the FAA standards.
One must not forget this aircraft has been looked after by the same engineers as the BBMF Lancarster which had its major check earlier in the year and that looks in very good shaped, all being well for a number of decades to come.
So we could see this DC 6 go on for a number of years to come provideing the funding is there. She is relying on sponsers in anumber of ways like the coulurs she is in know to do with makeing a film and to have the aircraft appear at air shows like next weekend she is back in Leylastad and then on to Hamburg so the funding is out there to try and keep her where you belongs to be able to do this.
When an aircraft is displayed in the U.K. the crew need to hold a display licence and that is added cost so there are many a hidden cost to keep her in the air even on a permit to fly which a number of these aircraft that appear at air shows are on.
Yes, I do work in the industry and hold a Part-66 AML in all catagories (excluding Diesel technology and wooden structure AC).
A CAA inspector will normally not inspect the actual aircraft (at least not in detail), but rather inspect the paperwork.
Again this has nothing to due with Air Atlantique
As long as the paperwork is Ok, unsafe aircraft can easily slip through CAA inspection, although im not saying this is happening on a regular basis.
I too hope to see the classic fleet of Air Atlantique flying for many years, the DC 6 i worked on, just didn’t seem like it would (this is about 8 years ago, so maybe major structural restoration has been undertaken since).
MondarizWow, Mondariz, that’s pretty strong!
Do you have any evidence to suggest there is anything wrong with this aircraft? I imagine an airplane maintained in accordance with an EASA Transport (Passenger) Certificate of Airworthiness must have to meet some kind of minimum maintenance standard. If the UK aviation authorities shared your view I guess they’d probably have grounded her by now. They haven’t so I guess they don’t. The pilots probably have wives and sweethearts so I don’t suppose they’d play around with a suspect aircraft either. And I’m certain that the engineers themselves actually travel on this aircraft. That’d be a foolish thing to do if they thought it was “ready for the scrap yard”.
If I cast aspersions about an airline operated aircraft I’d want to be really sure about my facts. Saying that kind of stuff could really hurt them.
I understand that the chemicals used for pollution spraying were basically a strong detergent. But since G-APSA never actually carried anything stronger than tap water its a bit like expecting the rain to rot your windows.
Congratulations to the hard working team of engineers who look after G-APSA and all her stablemates. It’s a tough job that deserves some recognition.
Well done guys. I love the new paint job.
I worked on one of their DC 6 aircraft a number of years back, and to be hornest, i have never seen aircraft structure in such a state.
For all i know, they could have scrapped the aircraft im talking about, thats why i wrote “I hope its not the same”. But that AC had been rigged for chemical spraying, although it was not installed at the time.
I did a google bit and found that another AA DC 6 was grounded for 18 months awhile back, i assume that was the AC in question, not G-APSA.
As i said, I’m not suggesting there is something wrong with this DC 6, I just wrote i hoped its was not the same AC i worked on.
Not concerning Air Atlantique: You would be surprised to know what people/pilots would operate/fly. Thats part of why we have aviation authorities in the first place.
I have seen an “unmentioned” african airline 737 with a rear preassure bulkhead repair, consisting of a flat rolled hydraulic fluid can rivited over the damage.
Also aircraft parked (read abandoned) due to aviation authorities inspection. Dublin airport had a 707 (also african) parked for about 10 years, before it was finally scrapped.
I’n my expirence, there are some people who would fly a machine untill it litterally falls apart. Just as you might see drivers on the road, with vehicles unsafe for road use.
Again i will stress that this last part, has absolutly nothing to due with Air Atlantique.
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