“No, but opinion polls in Iraq, conducted almost daily, are very consistent in their findings. More than half say they are better off NOW than before the war, and much more expect a better future. Over 75% say attacks against coalition forces are unacceptable. While more than half of iraqis feel the war humiliated Iraq, only 10% want the coalition to leave NOW. that speaks volumes. They understand the need for the troops, and are expressing how they felt about being invaded. the “inconsistencies” between how they “feel” and what they want are the most telling information in the polls, and is exactly what I thought they would feel like. Upset about being invaded–it’s embarassing to a proud people–but understanding of the situation.”

would anyone expect opion polls compiled by the occupation authorities to say otherwise?:rolleyes: its easy to find a population segment who would say what u want to hear from them (opinion polled compiled during the vietnam war showed pretty much the same things), its a totally different matter about being able to accuratly guage the mood of the nation, especially when americans are shot on site if not accompanied my a US marine convoy in many parts of the nation.

“Oh, and to clear something up about the arrests of the Clerics to people–they were arrested(by iraqi police, I thought) because they incited violence, and murdered another cleric, who did not call for violence. I would say the fact that he is supported by Iranians, possily funded by them, murdered another Shiite cleric who worked WITH the coalition, and lied to his followers to get them to attack coalition forces, I see no reason why he is still alive. These are the people you TRY to kill in a war. His followers are not that many–some 3,000 in a city of 3 million. They just dress up and march with guns, holding up pictures of him.”

and who exactly can say for sure that he’s done anything the amercians…sorry iraqis say he did? all we have are alligations with zero evidence to back it up. and when was the last time any iraqi had a decent trial when being accused of being ‘counter-coalision’ in iraq?:rolleyes:

if u have bothered to do a little bit of research on the guy, u would realise that many of the values and views he supports are quite radical and not in line with what most iraqis want, but many still back him simply because he has the balls to stand up to the americans. that says volumes about what the iraqi ppl feel about the americans presence doesnt it?

and PS, if his support base is indeed so small, then the US military is doing a pi$$ poor job not being able to contain it with far superior numbers and armed and air support. the fact is his supporters are far more numerous then some would like to admit. and many of them are fighting not because they support this claric, but because they dont like how the americans are doing things in iraq. unless the US address those concerns, these ppl will only grow in number.

who?:confused:

how long were u sitting on that one?:rolleyes: :p 😉

“No, you said “why is everything coming from America”, I was talking about donations, you, seem to have been referring to buisness.”

well, even with donations there’s plenty of stuff coming from europe. so what were u on about?

“The vast majority of Iraqis WANT a democratic state,and WANT to see it through. Only a few thousand people are fighting right now, and they are mostly Sunnis, Shiite followers of that cleric murderer, or foreign terrorists. “

oh, did u do a refferandum to ask them?:rolleyes:

if the vast majority wanted democracy, then why dont u give it to them instead of having a US hand pick pupet gov to rubber stamp everything? :rolleyes:

“Do you know WHY the cleric’s milita started an “uprising?” Because many of his top men were arrested last week. He lost his top people, so he’s in a last ditch effort to get a theocracy. HE had no other choice, either be arrested with his men, and fall into memory while rotting in IRaqi jail, or stage a “rebellion”. Not unexpected after the arrests.”

and why exactly did the US choose to take out his top ppl? could the little fact that he is a well known and widely respectly iraqi figure who supports an iran style islamic republic have anything to do with it?:rolleyes:

last time i check, democrasy is not about first killing off or imprisoning everyone who has a different view point and then asking the ppl left to vote for one candidate. (does the 99.99 ‘approval’ rate saddam got before the US invaded come to mind?)

“I was referring to the South vietnamese peasents, who could care less who ruled them,as long as they could grow rice, raise children, and live on. If they gave a rat’s A$$ what kind of government was in the cities, they sure didn’t show it. It resulted in a lot of americans becoming frustrated with them. They were trying to preserve their freedom, but they were happy with the life they had, they would rather be alive than free. Their choice. Americans saw that as pretty sad, and looked down on it. “

oh they did give a damn about freedom from american occupation and either faught against the americans or supported the VC and NVA that came down from the north. (please dont tell me u honestly believed the CV carried whole months worth of food and ammo on their backs).

americans became frustrated cos the very ppl they were supposed to be ‘protecting’ were shooting them when they turned their backs.

the whole vietnamese ppl choose freedom instead of wealth, americans might have looked down on it or percieved it as ‘pretty sad’, but then who gives a damn?:rolleyes:

oh, only the most famous boxer of all time.;) :p

“I was not talking about buisness, just donations.

And most americans are NOT donating. IF they did, Iraq qould be able to triple it’s GDP by sellingoff surplus donations.

All it takes is a few people to donate a few boxes of pencils and paper to supply an entire school for a year. “

so, let me guess, in ur last post u were suggesting that only americans donate stuff are u? if thats what u believe then theres no point is dicussing anything with u. :rolleyes:

“I wouldn’t say it’s bitten off too much. Everyone fully expected the recent events, the sunnis are afraid they’ll be punished for being saddam’s pets, and the Radical Shiites, having been oppressed for decades, think that an islamic state is best. Both groups are willing to do crazy things–to the point of damaging their cause–to get their point across.”

er……NO. :rolleyes:

the US military, US ppl and the rest of the world expect saddam loyalists and islamic terrirosts to be doing most of the fighting. that was the case for quite a while, but now it seems that huge chunks of the iraqi ppl and iraqi military who previously laid down their arms are also joining in the fight, that was not expect by many, certainly not this late in the occupation.

the world expect the level of violence to be deminishing, not increasing with time. had the US opened up even even 1/3 of the reconstruction contracts to foreign bidders, then the reconstruction would have been much much quicker, generating jobs and wealth, and keeping ppl off the streets.

instead, the US tried to keep all the contracts (ie all the money), but after years of decline and outsourcing, the US manufactoring and construction sectors simply could not meet the massive demand of rebuilding a nation revaged by three major wars, more then a decade of sanctions and sparadic bombing.

also, the fact that the pl doing the reconstruction are americans are not helping the reconstrution effort as events have brutally demonstrated over the weekend.

“With support of most of Iraqis, the Us will see things through.”

with the full support of most of the iraqi ppl then the US will no doubt see things through. however, currently, most iraqis are unfriendly to the americans, some are indifferent, many are against and very few are fully with. and that does not look like changing without major stragegic changes by the US military and cival administration.

“In Vietnam, the people were ok with whatever they had–they didn’t care about being free, only alive. The Iraqis want freedom, and most know how to get it(NOT shiite theocracy, or imperial dictatorship). “

:rolleyes: is that why millions of vietnamese died fighting an enemy that outmatched it in every feild but the willingness to die for what they believed to be worth fighting for?:rolleyes:

“Why everything’s got to come from America? Maybe Americans SHOULDN’T be the only ones sending stuff. Maybe if you Europeans decided to send some school supplies, then it wouldn’t ALL come from America. People are donating this stuff THEMSELVES, individuals, out of their own pocket, shipping it with their OWN money. Get off your high horse, buy some pencils and paper, and ship it over there yourself if you want to. “

lol, get out in the streets and ask americans if they send stationary to iraq and i’ll bet most of them will either laugh at u or give u ‘the look’.:rolleyes:

rebuilding iraq is big business where lots of money is to be made. america doesnt want to share the pie (not even with the british it seems), and now it has appeared it has bitten off more then it can chew.

a very large proportion is not vast majority of iraqis protesting in the streets are there not cos they want to kill americans, but because they cant feed their families and are desperate and anger. having bullets shot at ur, rubber or otherwise is not going to make them feel any better.:rolleyes:

the one with ali running or the one with ali being beaten up by a girl?:confused: