‘yawn’

not this crap again. what, loosing in one argument so u decide to shift attention away? :rolleyes:

“overlook 50 years of ruthless occupation of Tibet by China during which hundreds of thousands have been murdered and a culture largly destroyed. Genocide now endorced by India if recent reports are true.”

lol, where u pull this from? newsmax? do u have one piece of credible evidence to support these luducrous claims of ur?

tibet has been apart of china for hundreds of years before the west even knew there was such a place. the so called ‘popular uprising’ was blown completely out of proportion by the west cos china was communist, and so the ‘enemy’. if it was a ‘popular’ uprising, did u think the PLA would have been able to gain complete control of an area larger then half of europe so quickly?

the US really is slipping up here.

one of the main reasons the US has been so successful and prosperous is because in the minds of many, it stood for justice, fairness and equallty, so ppl flock to get into the US, many of the worlds finest minds included.

but now, that should be revised to, ‘the US stands for justice, fairness and equality IF ur a US citizen’, its a whole new ball game if ur from somewhere else.

all the arguments Bush and co put up to support their treatment of the POWs (i call them that cos thats what they are in essence) in guatanamo is just nit picking and word play. they may have been able to tie the lawyers in a not with the invention of a new frase, but that does change things much in the minds of the ordinary jo on the streets. even in britan (the US’ best allie) the public is highly cynical and dismayed at the US’ action in relation to Guantanamo.

SOC, u put up arguments abt revealing national secrets in open court, sure that can be a problem, but:
A) how can u convince ppl that this is just not another excuse designed to make it easier to satisfy the US’ blood lust?
B) even if national secrets were genuenly at risk of being exposed, how do u explain the fact that the prisionners dont even know what they are charged with and cannot get legal representation? theyre locked in cages, surelly telling them what they are charged with would not run the risk of compramising secrets.

(BTW, surely the risk of revaling national secrets didnt just crop up today, how were previous trials where state secrets were at risk handled?)

sure, i can understand the strong feelings in the US cos of what happened, but no-one could ever reasonably object to giving those ppl a FAIR hearing, cos at the moment, the so called ‘trials’ seem nothing more then a show and/or formality, and the Bust admin seem like nothing more then a blood thrusty hypicrit.

sauron:

“Good climate, good treatment, three meals and day, first rate medical attention.

There are millions of people around the world who would line up to live in such a place. These scum never had it so good.

Sauron”

so u speak for ‘millions’ now do u? do u actually know one person who is jumping at joy at the prospect of going to guantanamo? or r u interested urself?

to clear things up

“First you say this:

“as for ‘reuniting on equal terms’, well, with no disrespect, but ur a little nieve to think that’ll happen. NO nation or leader on earth would accept those therms if they were in the PRC’s shoes,”

And then you say this:

“we’re not asking them to just ‘junk their system of government/law and assimilate into this economic progression that the geniuses of PRC are planning’. ever hear of the ‘one nation two rules’ ‘thingy’? ppl like u were predicting that hong kong and marco would become communist armed camps where the ppl have to eat what they r given, do waht they are told and even take a pi$$ when they’re ordered. “

So which is it?”

the first quote u made was my answer to ur suggestion that the PRC should reunite on equal terms with taiwan. i took that(reunite on equal terms) as u trying to say that chen and co should get an equal (to beijing) say in deciding the fate of the 1.3 bn chinese on the mainland. that, of course will never happen, not even chen himself dreamed of asking for such terms.

the second quote u made is the ‘unequal terms’ the PRC is offering the ppl of taiwan. the biggest ‘inequality’ will probably be that the new mayor/governer (?) of taiwan will not have the level of political freedom as they have now (cant just decide to buy $bns worth of weapons for the US etc). also, the ppl of taiwan may not have a say in who gets a few posts in government. (there will be a few downsides to reunification, as there are with any political decision)

“You say that PRC has a claim on Taiwan because chang ki shek (spelling?) stole money and resouces from the mainland? I guess the UK has a claim on current US wealth because the colonists took british resources when they claimed independance. Howabout money/resources Hitler took, or Napolean? I could probably give you a few a hundred examples of countries that have spit or been conquered in the past 200 years where one country could claim damages or money owed from another. This arguement carrys no weight.”

with all due respect, but what the KMD took to taiwan
at the end of the chinese civil war cant be compaire with what the US took from the brits when they declear independence or what was taken by foreign invaders after invasions, the KMD practically took the kicten sink with them. taking in mind that china has just emergered from 100+ years of war and invasion, the KMD left us with pratically nothing (most african nations were probably richer then china at the time). and because of it, tens of thousands if not millions died of starvation in the PRC (poor management and unsuccessful reforms also played a big part, but the fact that the PRC only has abt $1 in the bank didnt help things much).

and anyways, it was muturally accepted (ie, both taiwan and the PRC agreed on it) that taiwan was a part of china. they agreed to that and signed treaties with us, so its not like we’re just laying claim to an independent nation as say, what the US is doing to iraq.

” am in the process of trying to become a Mexican citizen. And yes Im very concerned that the mainland Chineese economy is going to empoverish the Mexican economy. Ofcourse I dont want Mexico to remain a source of labor for other countrys, Id like to see industrial development here. But until that happens, Id like to see a good level of minimum living standards for factory labor. Believe it or not, I AM actually concerned about Chineese industrial development more than their labor competition. If it wasnt China making it difficult for Mexico now, it could easily be somewhere else, Africa for example.”

nice to see that u are actually quite truthful and graceful abt some things, guess i was wrong abt u, and sorry if i went too far abt mexico in my last post.

but the fact is china’s industrial development is benefiting a great deal from our cheap labour. i must admit, it doesnt feel good at all to see chinese being exploited (which is pretty much what happens), but do remeber that no one forced those ppl to work in sweatshop or force them to accpet the low wages that they take. if anything, the authorities are trying to stop or at least reduce the floow of migrant workers from the rural areas.

wachenroder:

very fair and accurate post, well done!

mixtec:

“Taiwan is an independant nation, they owe nothing to PRC. They have no obligation to give lip service to your provacations. PRC is the only one spewing retoric.”

actually, taiwan owns a hell of alot more to the PRC then what we’re asking of them. to fully understand the current stance of the PRC u need a history lesson.

the guo min dong or KMD was a US back dictatorship that oppressed its ppl while bowed to foreign invaders, it used its best troops to try to quash political opponents while ordering its troops in mancheria to ‘not resist’ even when they were being fired upon by invading japanese troops. the ultamate irony for china in WWII was that much of the weapons japan used to invade the coastal regions of china were weapons left behind by fleeing KMD soilders as they retreated without a fight (with the exceptions when brave units disobayed orders and stood to fight).

when the KMD finally decided to fight (they were forced into it because jiang jie shi (KDM dictator) was kidnaped and forced to sign a treaty with the chinese communists by his own generals who were furious with his actions), it was already too late, much of the KMD’s and the chinese communists best troops have already died fighting each other and japan have gained a strong foothold in northern china, also, much of the natural barriers in north china were given up without a fight, leaving chinese infentry defending open country against japanese tanks and aircraft.

when japan surrandered in 45, the KMD quickly went back on its old path of trying to silence all opposition and started the chinese cival war, but in the end they were totally defeated by a poorly armed pesent army who was back by the ppl of china. the remanents of the KMD fled to taiwan, but not before looting the nation of everything of value ($$$, gold, silver, antiques, heavy machinary) and destroying much of what they could not take with them. taiwan’s prosperity of today is built on the collective wealth that belonged to all chinese. so its little wonder that taiwan’s GDP ‘puts your 1 billion people to shame’.

and BTW, taiwan isnt an independent nation, they could have become a truely independent nation anytime during the past 40 years, but if they did that, then they wouldnt have a case to ‘retake the mainland’ now would they? the greed of the KMD put them in the position they are in now, we are just following the rules of the many treaties that taiwan signed with us specifically pointing out that there is only one china and that taiwan is an inseperable part of china.

and anyways, is not like we’re asking all that much of taiwan.

“And there you have it! Taiwaneese just have to junk their system of government/law and assimilate into this economic progression that the geniuses of PRC are planning, to become the democratic and capalist wonder that plawolf says it will be.”

thats just the kind of garbage that i was refering to abt taiwan misleading their ppl and indeed the world, abt what reunification would mean for the ppl of taiwan.

we’re not asking them to just ‘junk their system of government/law and assimilate into this economic progression that the geniuses of PRC are planning’. ever hear of the ‘one nation two rules’ ‘thingy’? ppl like u were predicting that hong kong and marco would become communist armed camps where the ppl have to eat what they r given, do waht they are told and cant even take a pi$$ without permission.

in reality, little would change in taiwan, the laws wouldnt change nor the economy. if anything, life for the ordinary taiwanese would get better after reunification, not worse. after all, they would not need to pay extortionary prices for foreigne (american) weapons, they would enjoy unlimited access to the massive makert of china and would be abt to take fully advantage of the cheap labour across the straits (things the TAIWANESE government currently do not allow). for many who work and/or do business in the PRC, they would enjoy a much shorter jorney time between taiwan and the mainland and direct trnsportation links would also allow ppl with reletives on each side to visit each other much more easily. the only significant changes would be a new flag and new leaders (we probably wont want chen and his cronnies around after reunification, thats why they’re so opposed to it).

“All I seem to hear from China are flowery discriptions about “progress” being made and the countrys need to “maintain unity and order”.
Ill admit, I dont know what the political, social, econmic realitys are right now for the PRC, but I am getting tired of hearing things like:

“what is important is that while china’s social and economic systems still have many flaws that need to be ironed out, we are doing exactly that. just look at the progress we have made already. in little more then two decades, we have transformed china from a poor and backward secretive communist state, not very unlike the n.korea of today to the prosperous and vibrent nation of today, and china is still changing for the better with every day passed, to become a more open and free nation. it is not incredible at all to predict that in another 20 years china could become the most open, free and prosprous nation in asia.”

This is just a bunch of hot air that anyone could spout about any country, do you mind giving some specifacs?”

all u hear are ‘flowery discriptions about “progress” being made’ because that is the case. china has, and still is undergoing massive changes socially and economically. i guess all those picture of modern, prosperous cities in china are all photoshop fakes and that the entire population of china is forced into slave labour camps to produce ‘dirt cheap TVs for u’ is that it?

“Ill admit, I dont know what the political, social, econmic realitys are right now for the PRC, but I am getting tired of hearing things like:…”

well, if that were the case, then how can u be so bloody sure of what things are not like in china?

at first i was a little puzzled by all ur misconseptions and hatred of china, but then it hit me, ur from mexico arent u? it all make sence now, u dont like china cos chinese goods are taking all the business away from mexican goods. after all, why should ppl have to pay $XXX to get their goods from mexico when they can get the same quality products from china for a fraction of the price. hence all the refernces to ‘sweatshops’ and ‘dirt cheap TVs’ etc.

well, for ur information, there were no sweatshops in china until we went down ur capitalist road (we were always criticised and hated for being ‘red commies’, now u dont like it when we’re trying to be capitalist like u, there is just no pleasing u is there?), and ‘dirt cheap TVs’ is a good thing for the vast majority of ppl, are u trying to imply that chinese products are ‘inferior’ to ur mexican ones just cos we sell ours cheaper?

dont try to pick a bone with us just cos u priced urselves out of the market, after all, u had a 30 years head start, its not our fault if u didnt used that time wisely.

“You want stupid? This is stupid:

“but thats beside the point, a country is not like ur hair, u cant just decide to change it today and have it done by tommorrow. transition from one social and economic system to another is a long and arduaus process, if u rush into it and try to change the nation overnight they u’ll end up like the former USSR. the ‘years of needless struggle’ is not needless at all, if u try to do away with those years, u’ll just end up having to go through many more years of struggle.”

Taiwan is supposed to “unify” with this kind of thinking?”

care to explain how that is ‘stupid’? name me one nation that tranformed from a communist state to a capitalist one overnight (or vise versa) and ended with anything but a desaster, never mind being as successful or prosperous as china. just cos u cant understand sth doesnt make it ‘stupid’.

“Now this one really kills me:

“also, i doubt that taiwan’s leaders are in the same league as the PRC’s, almost all of china’s top leaders are from qing hua or bei da (china’s equivilent to oxford and cambridge/ harverd and yal(spellings)).”

plawolf, Im glad your country has all these qing hua graduates running things, we’ll definately wont have a shortage of dirt cheap tv sets and radios with these guys “maintaining order”.”

i’m also glade we have ppl like Hu in charge, after all, the only thing worse then selling tvs and radios at ‘dirt cheap prices’ is selling the same tvs and radios at prices that are so high that no one would touch them. 😉

“sorry, but you can push this on someone else, I dont trust you as a source for what 1.3 bn people in China want.”

yeah, what do i know, all i did is live and grow up there, fox is much more reliable, we should all listen to the teachings of the fox network, anyone who says fox is wrong is anti-capitalist and should be sent to guantanamo bay for re-education. 😀

“Then why dont you try and opening up the internet in China so the people can speak for themselves instead of having people like you speak for them?”

er, i dont run things in beijing, sure, i think china’s internet should be more open, so that more ppl from china can tell ppl like u how totally wrong u r abt china.

mixtec, ur last post was just a poorly disgised attempt to insult and degrade china, and if u dont show signs of being willing to engage in a serious debate based on merits, facts and logical arguments, i really dont see any point in responding to ur posts any more, cos i wont be abt to change ur view of china no matter what i do (short of flying u off to china to see for urself, yea, like that’ll happen), cos u just wouldnt take any of it in.

about taiwan

mixtec:

no disrespect, but ur post seems to betray ur lack of understanding on this very complicated matter.

“I have to say Im puzzled about China treating Taiwan as a “defeated” renegade rebel province rather than reuniting with a prosperous 1st world nation on equal terms. “

china dont treat taiwan like a ‘”defeated” renegade rebel province’, well, not for a few decades anyways. the current fairly hardline stance by the PRC is a result of over a decade of repeated provacations and retoric by succesive pro-independence governments.

its a long and very complicated list, but to sum things up, taiwan, well li deng hui (the former taiwanese ‘president’) and chen shui bian (the current ‘president’) first intensified arms purchases from abroad, then tried to go back on old treaties which specifically states that there is only one china and that taiwan is a part of china. couple that with proacative war games (in one taiwan did a mock bombing run to simulate an attack on the new three gorages dam) and retoric (‘one nation on both isde of straits’ speeches, thinly vailed threats made by high ranking taiwanese officals that taiwan would bomb hong kong if the PRC reacted to taiwan declearing independence, there is even talk of taiwan lauching a pre-emptive first strike to knock out the PRC’s ability to repond just before taiwan declears independence). with all that in mind, im actually suprised that the PRC hadnt taken more serious action then just ignoring chen. ( i strongly doubt any ‘western’ nation would have put up with half the things the PRC did).

as for ‘reuniting on equal terms’, well, with no disrespect, but ur a little nieve to think that’ll happen. NO nation or leader on earth would accept those therms if they were in the PRC’s shoes, do u think that china’s leaders are more stupid then all others?

“Taiwan is an industrialized nation that competes on an equal level with the likes of Japan, Korea, USA, Germany, etc, etc. I know its a hard pill to swallow, but if China would align itself to Taiwans government and laws, they would eliminate years of needless struggle to convert to being a free market society.”

florida has a GDP higher then most nations, do u suggest that bush should listen to the opinons of the florida govener before making a decision? after all, the florida governer was elected by the ppl of florida, and florida has a legal and economic system that is distinctly different in many ways from all other parts of the USA……

and anyways, taiwan’s economy isnt doing so well nowadays, shanghai is beating taiwan in almost every feild economically.

as for ‘align itself to Taiwans government and laws, they would eliminate years of needless struggle to convert to being a free market society.’

well, taiwan’s systems may be better then the current systems the PRC is using, but taiwan’s systems are far from perfect themselves, if china wanted to just ‘copy+paste’ a better social and economic model onto china, we would choose sinapore over taiwan anyday.

but thats beside the point, a country is not like ur hair, u cant just decide to change it today and have it done by tommorrow. transition from one social and economic system to another is a long and arduaus process, if u rush into it and try to change the nation overnight they u’ll end up like the former USSR. the ‘years of needless struggle’ is not needless at all, if u try to do away with those years, u’ll just end up having to go through many more years of struggle.

what is important is that while china’s social and economic systems still have many flaws that need to be ironed out, we are doing exactly that. just look at the progress we have made already. in little more then two decades, we have transformed china from a poor and backward secretive communist state, not very unlike the n.korea of today to the prosperous and vibrent nation of today, and china is still changing for the better with every day passed, to become a more open and free nation. it is not incredible at all to predict that in another 20 years china could become the most open, free and prosprous nation in asia.

“There is nothing to fear of Taiwan being some kind of dominating power, if indeed there was complete integration between the two nations. You cant compare Taiwan with Hong Kong either. Hong Kong has always just been a trading city, not a self sufficient nation.”

there never was the fear abt taiwan ‘retaking the mainland’, its just that no taiwanese leader could ever have the right to govern half of the PRC.

while china’s leaders are not elected, the large majority to the 1.3 bn chinese like and support them, especially hu jin tao (the new chinese president). but few on the mainland have much warm feelings towards chen and co, even if the government offered chen china’s No2 postion, the ppl would not stand for it ( yes, even china’s leaders have to pay close attention to what the ppl want).

also, i doubt that taiwan’s leaders are in the same league as the PRC’s, almost all of china’s top leaders are from qing hua or bei da (china’s equivilent to oxford and cambridge/ harverd and yal(spellings)).

as for the difference between taiwan and hong kong, well sure they’re massively different, but there are more similarities between the two then differences. the main reason many ppl in taiwan do not support reunificantion is partly due to the fact that taiwan’s authorities have tried their best to ‘darken the waters’ as it were. many simply do not know what the PRc is offering while other still believe that red guards would burst into their homes and ‘liberate’ their possetions or that millions of chinese imagints will flood into taiwan if the two reunited. is it a coincident that many of those who support reunification are businessmen that have lived and worked in the PRC, and that taiwan is the one dragging their feet over allowing direct transport links being astablished between the two?

all in all, the main factors stooping the taiwanese ppl supporting reunificantion are as follows:

1) lack of understanding about what ‘reunificantion’ really means.

2) lack of knowledge abt what china is really like. most still hold the same steriotypes and cliches as those in the west. this state of ‘misunderstanding’ is not helped by the taiwan governments manipulation of the press and blocking of mainland television and radio stations (didnt hear abt that on CNN did u?).

3) the image of china as percived by the west. because of the ‘poorness’ and ‘backwarderness’ that many in the west automatically association with the word ‘china’ many ppl from taiwan that go abroad find that they are treated with more respect if they refered to themselves as ‘taiwanese’ instead of ‘chinese’.

4) the extensive government programs run by the taiwanese government to try to differentiate ‘taiwanese’ from ‘chinese’ and to try to build their own ‘national indentity'(taiwanese schoolkids are now tought lessons designed to promote taiwanese independence).

but as china become more prospurous and open, and as world opions of china start to change, these factors are having an ever decreasing effect.

what i find most ironic and even a little funny is that the PRC is not the one desperate to find a quick solution(as many western media seem to suggest), since, time is on our side.

as china becomes richer and more like the west, more and more ‘taiwanese’ are now begining to feel that being chinese may not be as bad as they though, and so more and more ppl are supporting reunification. that is why the ‘one china’ principle was never a problem for the taiwan government before, but it is now; that is why taiwan is buying much more arms then before and holding many more war games; that is why the ‘taiwan independence’ issue has suddenly become a priority after nearly 4 decades since taiwan become a de-facto independent nation.

the facts suggest that in a few years or decades, the taiwan ppl would want to become a real part of china again if the status quo was maintained. the facts also indicate that some taiwanese (often those with the most to gain from ‘taiwanese independence’ or the most to loose from reunification) also realise this, and are trying all they can to make taiwan a truely independent nation while they still can, so naturally this is unacceptable to the PRC. u can mark my words, if chen and co really crosses the line and declears independence, then there can only be war, and i really dont want to see that, so im firmly against anyone and everyone that supports ‘taiwanese independence’.

if only….

Votex and TTP:

u are both right when u say that there are many problems in china at the moment, but the points u are focusing on are from 10, 20 years in the past, most are no longer relevent because THINGS HAVE CHNAGED. if CNN or FOX would tell u more abt the china of today, or if u have listened to anything i or WACHENR0DER have said so far then u would realise this.

for example:

TTP:

“Give me freedom to dare greatly, even if I fail I will have tried!, I don’t want somebody else responsible for my life! I am not content to do as well as my neighbor, I want to strive to do better to reach the heights of my capabilities, not what level the government says I should aspire to! I am not content to work at a job the government says I should do, Maybe I would be a great Lawyer, but I want to fly Jets!! so I did, nobody told me I couldn’t! I will take care of my retirement, I will buy what I want where I want, I will travel anywhere I want to go, ask any question!!!!! Are you getting this yet??? “

YES! me and my freinds and EVERYONE else in china, and it has been the case fro decades. the PRC NEVER tried to control all aspect of human life. even Mao did not try to dictate what roles ppl should play in sociaty. u seem to be confusing china with the borg or sth.

iu know what, i am very busy with an important project at the moment, and i just dont have time for this now, if u like, we can pick up where we left off here and coutinoue this in two months time when im free.

some of u have ur own little berlin walls built in ur head when it comes to communism.

first, no one who seem to know how ‘evil’ it is will EVER answer us when we ask them to explian what communism is. how the hell could u know how ‘terrible’ something is if u dont even know what the thing is?!

the only problem with the basic IDEALS of communism is that it is too far ahead of its time, we are not ready for it yet. just because something doesnt work perfectly now doesnt mean that it is fundamentally flawed. im sure many ppl considered davenchi to be crasy when he presented his ideas of the helecopter, the same ideas that are now used as the baisis of helecopter design.

the main reasons that communism faild in so many nations was because:

a) communism required the population of a country to be motavated by things other then material wants. this, of course was not the case, communist countries faild because in the end, most their populations just couldnt be bothered to work because there was no material incentives, those who worked could not support those who didnt.

b) communists were usually idealists and care little for propaganda and publicity. this meant that communist nations lost the media war, and allowed the west to smuther their image and distort the trueth. thats why so many instictively hate communism, but dont know exactly y. u say im the one brainwashed? well it looks like ur the ones who has been reprogrammed.

c) communist nations were mostly lead by authoritarian leaders, who knew what they wanted, but didnt know ecatly how to reach these goals, this often meant that they were less then suttle in policy implamentations, and many of these policies, while good on paper were unatainable in reality. this made it more difficult to creat a successful communist state.

i always find it funny when ppl say how, ‘so many ppl fled communist nations becuase those ppl like capitalis ideals better.’ ha! those ppl escaped communism because they thought material posesion were better then idealism, they went to the west, not in search of better ideals but better living standards. in a way, no one can blame them, after all, when choosing between ur stomach and ur ideals, most would chose the former, it is human instinct after all.

but the one thing the west cant claim is having the better idealoligy. millions were willing, and have died for their communist ideals, how many of u are willing to die for ur happy meals?

oh, ps, sauron, so what if i like the ideal set out by Marx? surely u’r not still using the cold war equation of ‘communism=evil, must destroy, destroy, destroy’.:p

ttp:

“Crobato,

Plawolf said in an earlier post that if it weren’t for the Communist party, or the government in place now, China would become a divided nation, much like what happened to the old USSR when all the different “states” sought independence, You on the other hand say the Chinese are very nationalisticSo which one of you are right??? Read one of Plawolf’s earlier posts on the subject”.

i think in a way we are both right. the majority of chinese are very patriotic and a scence of nationalism is growing fast within china. but there are, and always will remain those who just dont like things the way they are and think that they can do better; there are those (often in minorities) who always disliked the Han (majority chinese) and dislike being ruled by us; there are also some who simply want to have their own little kingdoms and empires. this is fairly common in nations with long histories and vast cultural diversities.

of course, there are also some who suffered injustice at the hands of corrupt local officials and so think all Han are like them, or have suffered at the hands of the Han in the past (mostly during the japanese invation and cival war); there are also some minorities or religous groups who came from neighbouring countries, where they are the majority, to try to cause unrisings so that parts of china will break away and jion them…

these ppl will always try to break away or sth, but they usually do not represent the wishes of the majority they claim they are fighting for.

such groups can never achieve sustain themselves, and are usually supported from abroad by nations who either see china as a threat and are trying everything to undermined us, or have some sort of terretorial dispute with china but dont have the military means to take what they see as rightfully theirs.

currently, these nations knows china’s position and attetude towards them, and although they often support such groups with money, equipment, media support and even training in some cases, they still do not dare to make thing too obvious because if they are caught red handed, then the political and possible military reprecussions are too great for them to sustain. but by keeping things under raps, the groups they support can never hope to achieve their goals.

and there lies the problem for china if we left taiwan go. by setting such a president for those nations, we would be telling them that it is possible to force us to conceed terrotory if they raised the stakes high enough. this could:

a) start a regional arms race, where our neighbours think they can blackmail us if they have enough arms to inflict serious damage on us in a war.

b) lead to cival unrest because on one hand, more ppl will be encouraged by taiwan’s independence and think if they caused enough trouble we would just let them go. this would most likely lead to a surge in the number of these ‘independence groups’ as well as the number and furosity of terrorist attacks in china. on the other hand, there would be a massive public backlash by nationalisc youths shocked and disgusted by the government’s decision and subsiquent events.

c) lead to war with one or even many of our neighbours. if neighbouring countries try to blackmails us and the stakes are raised too high for either side to back down, then there can only be war. and (if u r sinical), there may even be a chance of china starting a war with a weak neighbour to divert public opinon.

there are many other possible ‘deasater’ scanarios that might result from taiwan declearing independence. but i think the point is made clear enough. if u back off when u are pushed, then more ppl are going to have a go at pushing u around to see if they can get sth from u, we nor any otehr responsible government simply cannot set such a president to the world.