plawolfhumm, did anyone notice how the ppl that are so happy to see US/UK troops coming down the road are also the ppl that are carring other ppl’s TV’s, water and food? sure, these ppl were happy to see the americans and brits, but i wonder if it is because they are happy that saddam is gone and that they (along with their oil) have now been ‘liberated’ by the US and UK, or because the american and british soilders either killed or drove away all the police. you guy know what tony b is going to do to restor order in irq? he’s going to send in TWO of his special miliaty police offices! wow!
of the very few interviews we get to see of whole families, the vast majority of the time the message being sent out is that they are affraid. affraid to go out even though they are running out of food and water; afraid to even open their doors. now i know that saddam was probabaly even worse then hitler, but i dont think there was even this level of fear in so many people under his rule.
what i find most suprising is how nieve (no offence intended) so many ppl are. the americans said right from the offset that this is going to be a media war! ie, they are going to use the media to manipulate the truth, so why do so many ppl still take news reports as if they are the truth, the whole truth and noting but the truth?
remember how at the begining and during the first 21 days of the war, the presenters always said that their reporters were reporting under military restrictions? did ppl think they were just adding that on to kill time? of course news reports coming from bagdad and other areas under iraqi control also had ‘restriction’ and this was stated.
but now that the miliatry cant control what is being reported, the US just tries to shrug off negative reports. just a while ago i was amazed at the sher cheeck of donald r in his latest news report.
complaining that the picture of the same varse being looted was being shown time and time again, and how he was ‘amazed’ to find out there was more then 1 varse in iraq!
well donald, there were alot more then just varses that were being carried around in the cities mate, get better glasses and maybe you well see what a big pile of **** you made out there.
plawolfto ttp
“Do the Germans and Japaneese hate us because we bombed them and destroyed their cities? Hell we even nuked the Japaneese!! Following your logic we should never defend ourselves for fear that reprisals will follow.”
actually the do, or did, but they learnt to forgive and forget because the germans and japanese were in the wrong, and they know that, (well at least the germans know that) they have nothing to say because A) they started it all; B) they were basicly fighting for the wrong cause, they were fighting to rule the world while the rest of us were fighting for our freedom and servival. when comparing the two, it easy to see which side has the moral high ground; C) during the war, both japanese and german leaders lost touch with reality and humanity and commited attrocities beyound belief, their ppls were shamed by this and accept that they should have been bombed, and finally D) they were both occupied for a considerable periode after their defeat, in which time their ppls were ‘re-educated’ into not wishing to fight back (not trying to by sinical or anything, but thats the way it happend)
now look at the current war. how many of the conditions i meantion match up? right now it does look like (not saying that it is, just that it looks like) that the US and UK are taking the roles of japan and germany for A) and B). and although saddm did commit attrocities to his own ppl, neither the US and UK governments had a problem with this until recently. this has abt as much justification as all the african nations demanding that the US and most of europe be sanctioned for their parts in slavery. if sth has passed and u say nothing at he time, then its done and dusted, if u keep looking up old debts at ur convenience, then the world would be forever caught in the past.
as for ‘re-education’, while that might work, but it would take at least a generation before it starts to take effect, plenty of time for bin ladden and co to do their worst.
“What actions did the US do to immediately prior to the Sept 11th attacks?” what prompted these attacks?
But I guess you feel its better to do nothing and hope these people will learn to like us.”
by bringing this up, i see that u still know very little abt y so many dislike the US. first of all, the event of 9/11 were an attrocity that could not be justified, but one would still understand the ‘logic’ that might of drove ordernary ppl (yes ordernary, no one was born a terriost, and it is often grave injustice that drive ppl to become terrists) to do what they did.
although it doesnt get reported as much, but palastinians, (children and weman in many cases) are killed almost everyday, on their own land, outside their own homes and often for nothing more then isreali revenge.
i sencerly hope u did not loose anyone close in 9/11, but if u did then just remember the anger, hatride and greif u must have felt. if u did not loose anyone close, then just remember what u felt to watch so many of ur countrymen being murdered in cold blood.
as bad as that must have been, how much worse would it be if it didnt just happen on one day, but everyday, and the ppl responsible were not just fuzzy pictures on walls but living, breathing, walking men setting up roadblocks down the street to ur house? would u not at least get the temptation to try to get even? and what happens it america didnt have the worlds best army? what if there were no marrines or tanks or plane to go after the ppl responsible or to stop it happening again? how would u feel? what would u do?(not ram a plane into a building i hope), but if u can imagine urself in that situation, then u might start understand what might have pushed orderary ppl over the edge to do what they did.
as for the second part of ur original question, yes, u cant just sit on ur butt and hope that all this will sort itself out, but going out there and making more ppl anger and frustrated is not the way to do it. only when u go after the root of the grevence that these ppl have, could u truly put of the fire that flames it. what bush and blair is do is like pouring water into a burning chip fryer.
🙁
plawolfto ttp
“Do the Germans and Japaneese hate us because we bombed them and destroyed their cities? Hell we even nuked the Japaneese!! Following your logic we should never defend ourselves for fear that reprisals will follow.”
actually the do, or did, but they learnt to forgive and forget because the germans and japanese were in the wrong, and they know that, (well at least the germans know that) they have nothing to say because A) they started it all; B) they were basicly fighting for the wrong cause, they were fighting to rule the world while the rest of us were fighting for our freedom and servival. when comparing the two, it easy to see which side has the moral high ground; C) during the war, both japanese and german leaders lost touch with reality and humanity and commited attrocities beyound belief, their ppls were shamed by this and accept that they should have been bombed, and finally D) they were both occupied for a considerable periode after their defeat, in which time their ppls were ‘re-educated’ into not wishing to fight back (not trying to by sinical or anything, but thats the way it happend)
now look at the current war. how many of the conditions i meantion match up? right now it does look like (not saying that it is, just that it looks like) that the US and UK are taking the roles of japan and germany for A) and B). and although saddm did commit attrocities to his own ppl, neither the US and UK governments had a problem with this until recently. this has abt as much justification as all the african nations demanding that the US and most of europe be sanctioned for their parts in slavery. if sth has passed and u say nothing at he time, then its done and dusted, if u keep looking up old debts at ur convenience, then the world would be forever caught in the past.
as for ‘re-education’, while that might work, but it would take at least a generation before it starts to take effect, plenty of time for bin ladden and co to do their worst.
“What actions did the US do to immediately prior to the Sept 11th attacks?” what prompted these attacks?
But I guess you feel its better to do nothing and hope these people will learn to like us.”
by bringing this up, i see that u still know very little abt y so many dislike the US. first of all, the event of 9/11 were an attrocity that could not be justified, but one would still understand the ‘logic’ that might of drove ordernary ppl (yes ordernary, no one was born a terriost, and it is often grave injustice that drive ppl to become terrists) to do what they did.
although it doesnt get reported as much, but palastinians, (children and weman in many cases) are killed almost everyday, on their own land, outside their own homes and often for nothing more then isreali revenge.
i sencerly hope u did not loose anyone close in 9/11, but if u did then just remember the anger, hatride and greif u must have felt. if u did not loose anyone close, then just remember what u felt to watch so many of ur countrymen being murdered in cold blood.
as bad as that must have been, how much worse would it be if it didnt just happen on one day, but everyday, and the ppl responsible were not just fuzzy pictures on walls but living, breathing, walking men setting up roadblocks down the street to ur house? would u not at least get the temptation to try to get even? and what happens it america didnt have the worlds best army? what if there were no marrines or tanks or plane to go after the ppl responsible or to stop it happening again? how would u feel? what would u do?(not ram a plane into a building i hope), but if u can imagine urself in that situation, then u might start understand what might have pushed orderary ppl over the edge to do what they did.
as for the second part of ur original question, yes, u cant just sit on ur butt and hope that all this will sort itself out, but going out there and making more ppl anger and frustrated is not the way to do it. only when u go after the root of the grevence that these ppl have, could u truly put of the fire that flames it. what bush and blair is do is like pouring water into a burning chip fryer.
🙁
plawolfhope u all have gas masks
cos bin ladden and co will be getting some really NASTY toys once the shooting starts.
GWB and blair claims that this war will help keep us safe, but all it will do is put us in more danger. saddam knows his military cant hope to beat the americans and brits, so the only way he can come out of this alive and maybe still in power is if public support for bush aand blair’s war fall aprt like what happen with nam. so he cant afford to use his WMD (if he has any that is).
on the other hand, if he knows he’s finished, then he will want to take out as many ‘evil westerners’ with him as possible, but he wont be able to do much harm to well trained and fully protected solders. he already sadi that if war starts then it will be fought anywhere where there is sky, land and water, so its like saying he’ll revert to terrism. as poor as iraq’s speical services is, it is still a profetional and experienced organisation, andwill achieve much better results then the rag tag al-q if they really set down that path.
but even if no one in iraq is willing to do saddam’s dirty work, all he needs to do is open the doors to his WMD or even just convential weapons stocks to al-q and say :help urself’. they’ll be more then willingto take what they can and find ways to use it.
what worse is that we might not even know for sure that this has happened until the weapons are used . right now the US has an eye on everyting that goes on in iraq, but once all out war starts, not even god would be able to keep track of everything, and will thousdand if not millions of refugees pouring out of all of iraq’s boarders, the chance that out bound WMD and advanced weapons such as man portable sams are stopped are close to 0. and believe me, if those things get out of iraq, then we will never hear the last of it. sleep tight now.
plawolfhope u all have gas masks
cos bin ladden and co will be getting some really NASTY toys once the shooting starts.
GWB and blair claims that this war will help keep us safe, but all it will do is put us in more danger. saddam knows his military cant hope to beat the americans and brits, so the only way he can come out of this alive and maybe still in power is if public support for bush aand blair’s war fall aprt like what happen with nam. so he cant afford to use his WMD (if he has any that is).
on the other hand, if he knows he’s finished, then he will want to take out as many ‘evil westerners’ with him as possible, but he wont be able to do much harm to well trained and fully protected solders. he already sadi that if war starts then it will be fought anywhere where there is sky, land and water, so its like saying he’ll revert to terrism. as poor as iraq’s speical services is, it is still a profetional and experienced organisation, andwill achieve much better results then the rag tag al-q if they really set down that path.
but even if no one in iraq is willing to do saddam’s dirty work, all he needs to do is open the doors to his WMD or even just convential weapons stocks to al-q and say :help urself’. they’ll be more then willingto take what they can and find ways to use it.
what worse is that we might not even know for sure that this has happened until the weapons are used . right now the US has an eye on everyting that goes on in iraq, but once all out war starts, not even god would be able to keep track of everything, and will thousdand if not millions of refugees pouring out of all of iraq’s boarders, the chance that out bound WMD and advanced weapons such as man portable sams are stopped are close to 0. and believe me, if those things get out of iraq, then we will never hear the last of it. sleep tight now.
plawolfRE: SCREW NATO — Old Europe responds
>I find it a redundant
>organization, being created to fight the soviet agressive
>expansion, once the threat is almost over, this should be
>replaced by an European Armed force. Until now most
>decissions have been based on a consensus, and many
>countries were used to feithfull obey without disagreement.
>But time change and many countries are starting to tell what
>they think. It seems that many others like our shamefull
>goverment, prefers liking others boots than paying attention
>to what the majority of people really thinks. But as
>democracy is a good think, elections will put leaders in
>their right places. As democratic societies, some countries
>have the right to disagree and even use veto. I suppose
>allies decissions should be respected, as we are friends not
>henchmen. Some of you are just confusing things. The
>countries which have used the VETO didn´t say, they didn´t
>want to help Turkey, simply that it was premature and could
>harm the diplomatic effords still under way. The inspector
>report is on the 14th (I think) so it´s folly putting
>burdens on their way, let´s them work. If there´s a real
>danger, of course Turkey will defended.
very well put, and i agrre totally with that. NATO only worked so well before because of the constain ‘threat’ posed by the soviets, since this ‘threat’ was so ‘great’, the european members didnt really mind all that much abt being bossed around by the US. but now that the soviet threat is no more, the US still wishes to keep the status quo going with it being the sole sole member that have the right to say and do what it likes.
well times have changed. for all those ppl out there who are crying :’betrail!’ over this, just remember that the leaders and governments of other coutries are there to stand for the interest and benefits of the ppl of those countries, and not just pupets or lapdogs of america. they are free ppl and free ppl have the right to say and do what they want. as long as doing so does not break any agreements or commitments made that is. which they have not, the veto is a legitimit option open to any and all NATO members. is it soooo very ‘shameful’ and ‘disgusting’ that members of NATO are exercising their full powers? god what a terrible crime! the hage will want a word with shroder and co in a minute.
plawolfRE: SCREW NATO — Old Europe responds
>I find it a redundant
>organization, being created to fight the soviet agressive
>expansion, once the threat is almost over, this should be
>replaced by an European Armed force. Until now most
>decissions have been based on a consensus, and many
>countries were used to feithfull obey without disagreement.
>But time change and many countries are starting to tell what
>they think. It seems that many others like our shamefull
>goverment, prefers liking others boots than paying attention
>to what the majority of people really thinks. But as
>democracy is a good think, elections will put leaders in
>their right places. As democratic societies, some countries
>have the right to disagree and even use veto. I suppose
>allies decissions should be respected, as we are friends not
>henchmen. Some of you are just confusing things. The
>countries which have used the VETO didn´t say, they didn´t
>want to help Turkey, simply that it was premature and could
>harm the diplomatic effords still under way. The inspector
>report is on the 14th (I think) so it´s folly putting
>burdens on their way, let´s them work. If there´s a real
>danger, of course Turkey will defended.
very well put, and i agrre totally with that. NATO only worked so well before because of the constain ‘threat’ posed by the soviets, since this ‘threat’ was so ‘great’, the european members didnt really mind all that much abt being bossed around by the US. but now that the soviet threat is no more, the US still wishes to keep the status quo going with it being the sole sole member that have the right to say and do what it likes.
well times have changed. for all those ppl out there who are crying :’betrail!’ over this, just remember that the leaders and governments of other coutries are there to stand for the interest and benefits of the ppl of those countries, and not just pupets or lapdogs of america. they are free ppl and free ppl have the right to say and do what they want. as long as doing so does not break any agreements or commitments made that is. which they have not, the veto is a legitimit option open to any and all NATO members. is it soooo very ‘shameful’ and ‘disgusting’ that members of NATO are exercising their full powers? god what a terrible crime! the hage will want a word with shroder and co in a minute.
plawolfRE: war in Irak and the Franco/German resistance
a little bit of history that may have slipped ur mind is that isreal seriously considered using nukes when it felt it was loosing aginst the arabs.
and no, i didnt just get that from ‘the sum of all fears’, it was on a documenty shown on the history channel in england.
plawolfRE: war in Irak and the Franco/German resistance
a little bit of history that may have slipped ur mind is that isreal seriously considered using nukes when it felt it was loosing aginst the arabs.
and no, i didnt just get that from ‘the sum of all fears’, it was on a documenty shown on the history channel in england.
plawolfRE: no disrespect….
but i think u guys are all missing the point a bit here.
1) turkey is not under attack yet, and the only real probablity that it will come under attack anytime in the near future is if iraq is attack by the US+UK using bases in turkey, or if saddam feels that war is innevitable and decides to ‘pre-empt’ the americans instead of sitting on his butt waiting for it to be blown off.
so there is no emmidiate need for partiots etc unless u plan to attack iraq asap, and it may even be a little dangerous to send a message of increased possiblity of hotilities to saddam, which, needless to say, is not exactly the best message to send to saddam right now, especially if we want to stop a war not start it.
2) turkey dont have to get its AWACS and patriots from NATO, and as things stand, it will get everything it asked for and more from the US, which means that its not ‘huge out to dry’ by the EU and NATO, as some ppl seem to think/imply. the only thing of significe of what france, germany and belguim is doing is not allowing the US to use the EU and NATO’s names as a rubber stamp to ‘legitimise’ its own decisions and actions.
last time i checked, the USA was not in europe, and if france, germany and belgium (which are in europe) are not qualified to deciede what the common european forgine policy should be, then the USA is even less qualaifed and should just shut up abt it and stop setting new records for hypocracy.
plawolfRE: no disrespect….
but i think u guys are all missing the point a bit here.
1) turkey is not under attack yet, and the only real probablity that it will come under attack anytime in the near future is if iraq is attack by the US+UK using bases in turkey, or if saddam feels that war is innevitable and decides to ‘pre-empt’ the americans instead of sitting on his butt waiting for it to be blown off.
so there is no emmidiate need for partiots etc unless u plan to attack iraq asap, and it may even be a little dangerous to send a message of increased possiblity of hotilities to saddam, which, needless to say, is not exactly the best message to send to saddam right now, especially if we want to stop a war not start it.
2) turkey dont have to get its AWACS and patriots from NATO, and as things stand, it will get everything it asked for and more from the US, which means that its not ‘huge out to dry’ by the EU and NATO, as some ppl seem to think/imply. the only thing of significe of what france, germany and belguim is doing is not allowing the US to use the EU and NATO’s names as a rubber stamp to ‘legitimise’ its own decisions and actions.
last time i checked, the USA was not in europe, and if france, germany and belgium (which are in europe) are not qualified to deciede what the common european forgine policy should be, then the USA is even less qualaifed and should just shut up abt it and stop setting new records for hypocracy.
plawolfRE: Chinese purchases of Russian kit – not MKKs
dont forget the s300 and ka28s.
as for the lack in joint training, well distrust does play a role, but only a small one, the biggest discuraging factor is political rather then anything else.
plawolfRE: Chinese purchases of Russian kit – not MKKs
dont forget the s300 and ka28s.
as for the lack in joint training, well distrust does play a role, but only a small one, the biggest discuraging factor is political rather then anything else.
plawolfRE: Shuttle lost (blows up?) on re-entry
condolences to the families of the crew.
plawolfRE: Shuttle lost (blows up?) on re-entry
condolences to the families of the crew.
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