plawolfPLAWolf,
funny you mention Titanic as she is exactly THE example of what it is to have NO watertight bulkheads. She didn’t have compartments, the bulkheads didn’t go all the way up to the maindeck. Which actually meant that when the first compartment flooded, the water just rose up, and then got into the next compartment over the bulkhead. Titanic was therefore the example that actually caused the obligation to put watertight bulkheads in a ship, so even a small hole would have actually sank her.
Thats not what I have read. The bulkheads might not have been water-tight, but the designer was not stupid enough to design a ship that might sink from the slightest puncture. The bulkheads extended way above the waterline, and that was though to be sufficient to contain any flooding. What was not anticipated was the number of compartments breached, and the weight of the water tilted the ship to such a degree where the level of the top of the bulkheads sank below the waterline and once that happened there was no saving the ship.
The same thing can happened just as easily to modern ships with watertight compartments if enough compartments were breached. Why do you think ships still sink these days even when they have watertight compartments? No ships are unsinkable, you just need a big enough hole, as the Titanic again examplifies.
plawolfSome ASMs can reattack a target. Have a proximity fuse means your missile is just as likely to detonate before hitting the target as after passing beyond. I imagine the idea is not impossible but it does seem to add an extra level of complexity, and new potentional failure points. Whatever happened to KISS.
Daniel
Well, if I was designing the missile and asked to put in a prox’fuse, then I would programme it so that the prox’fuse only kicks in after the primary seeker has lost its lock. Not that complicated and greatly increase the missile’s resiliance to jamming.
Another possibility that just occured to me is that a prox’fuse would make a large AShM able to take on smaller craft that might be too fast and agile for the missile to have a decent chance of hitting directly. I do realise that the main gun would be a far cheaper way of dealing with such small craft, and wasting big AShMs on them would seem like a crime. However, considering that these days, a great many small FACs can mount pretty long ranged AShMs themselves, the main gun might not be the best weapon to use to counter them. I certainly feel that its better to shoot off an AShM as opposed to have one shot at you.
plawolfWhen built of steal and related sections inside. A big hole will ashure nothing, when the ship is dived into numerous compartements. The biggest hazard is still the loss of power, what may prevent to control related battle-damage.
The designers of such missiles have in mind that one or two missiles are enough to bring the intended target out of battle. The INS Eilat sinking of 21.10.67 and the realted details give a good idea about that.
All ships have water-tight compartments to minimise the risk of the ship sinking in the event of a hull breach. A huge hole in the side of the ship increases the number of compartments that are likely to have been breached. Enough water inside a ship will sink it no matter what, remember the Titianic? Also, the bigger the hole in the ship, the faster water goes in and the less time the crew have to try and contain the flooding.
There are more then one way to sink a ship, and more then one way to design a missile.
plawolfI believe China staying Communist is actually safer for the world, imagine China with a multi-party system: you would have many nationalistic nutcases running political parties wanting to do things the hard way. And off course, using “hard power” is not really the way to go in achieving China’s national interest of reunifying with Taiwan.
China hasn’t been communist for a very long time, but its still an authoritarian regime. Its a common misconception to mistake the political ideaology with the political system.
Nit picking aside, I agree with what you said, and that is one of the reasons why I don’t think China will adopt western democratic systems.
The message is already loud and clear: Treat China like an enemy than it will become an enemy. An eventual American military intervention in the One China issue not only hurt American interest, but the West in general. For now I’m not too sure if its appropriate, but the issue of One China must be solved by the Chinese people without foreign interference.
I sincerly doubt that America will get directly involved in any probably future war in the straits. The only situation where it is even remotely likely that the US military will get directly engaged is if the mainland attacked Taiwan without ‘provocation’, but that is not even remotely likely to happen. If Taiwan declears independence and the PRC attacks, the most I see America doing to use its naval power to run PLAN blockades and try to ship weapons and supplies into Taiwan. Since port and airfields will be some of the first targets hit in any PLA attack, I don’t really see that as a major issue. The USN can ship weapons and supplies all the way across the pacific, but if they can’t unload them, its still a waste of a trip.
But even a Chinese only war in the straits would have substantial negative effects in the west and throughout the world. Its all a balancing act. The extreme neo-cons trying to push the US into adopting policies that are likely to start a war in the strait balanced by those that don’t want to see a war who try to maintain the status quo. Right now those opposed to war are in control most of the time, but not through a lack of trying by the other side.
plawolfTo get the most from a blast, it is delayed, till it pasts inside the ship. A C-802 hits with ~250 m/sec and the with of the INS Hanit is <12 metre at the aft-section.
The speed of the missile slows down dramatically upon impact, and I think the deplyed reaction fuses on C802s are designed to detonate after only a few metres inside the ship to open as big a hole as possible on the waterline to maximise the chances of sinking it.
plawolfI’m struggling to think of purpose for a proximity fuse on an ASM.
Daniel
I never found out what the need for proximity fuses are offically. The only use for one I can think of would be to have the missile detonate near the target in the event of a near miss to try and cause some damage, especially to the sensors and weapons systems, so that the missile is not wasted if ECM and/or chaff got the better of the radar seeker. However, this does not seem to fit with the kind of damage on the ship.
plawolfMy hope, for the good of the Asia-Pacific region, that the People’s Republic of China and the authorities in Taiwan will find a peaceful resolution to the One Chine issue without using force. Over recent years Beijing’s use of political/diplomatic power has been successful, it prevented Taiwan’s move towards independence because not many countries would recognise it.
Political power combined with economic seem to be working well for China and I hope the Chinese government will keep using it to achieve reunification.
That is the hope and firm belief of the vast majority of the Chinese people also. No-one on the mainland wants war if it can be avoided, and time does appear to be on the side of reunification. As China grows economically, it is also becoming freer politically. While I doubt China will ever go for democracy in the form the western nations have developed, I beleive one day it will be free enough for the majority on Taiwan to be able to accept reunification under peaceful means if not welcome it.
Taiwan has always been a pawn to the US, to be used to distract and leverage China. Americans will not be willing to send their sons and daughters to die in their tens of thousands for an independent Taiwan. The worst they might do is give those in power in Taiwan the impression that they would. And then send in weapons to make sure Chinese fight Chinese for as long as possible and that the blood and economic price on both sides of the strait is as high as possible. With a little high-horse deplomacy, the US might then be able to get the west to slap some more embargos and sanctions on China and throw back China’s development by a decade or more.
With China put in its place, the Americans will most likely move onto the next possible threat to their supreme global power. Its the way of Empires since the first.
plawolfDon’t these missiles have a proximity fuse to complement their delayed action contact fuse?
So I have heard, but what are you suggesting?
plawolfNo, they save that for those who openly practice religion or free speech. :rolleyes:
If you are only going to make up baseless crap just for the sake of trying to make me angry, then you are wasting your time, my time and bandwith. Only juvies are sad enough to get into a pi$$ing contest for the sake of spite.Either up the quality of your posts or please spare us your nationalistic bile.
plawolfBecause its obvious to me that with your attitude you are either a Chicom or a sniveling little toadie to the Chicoms
Wow, life must be so simple for you, ‘anyone who dares to disagree with my point of view is either a Chicom or Jihadist or treehugger etc’. :rolleyes:
…and Tibet has everything to do with China’s true colors and what would happen to many of its other neighbors if the “imperialist’ Americans weren’t around to stop them.
Yes, if only they treated the Tibetans like the Americans treated the A.Indians. :rolleyes:
plawolfWatch you mouth Chicom…or do I have to bring up Tibet? 😡
LOL, so anyone who dares to criticise the US and comes from China is a chicom? And I though we managed to move past name calling. :p
Anyways, what does Tibet have to do with American Imperialism? Or was that meant to be a threat? ‘Don’t make me look bad and I won’t smear you?’ Yes, that’s the way to win an arguement. Or is that how people discuss things where you come from? :rolleyes:
plawolfThis is the BAe stealth fighter project. As you can see, the plane itself is invisible to both radar and optics. However, because of contractural issues, BAe were unable to apply their new stealth technology on their American made litening pods.
plawolfThis is the BAe stealth fighter project. As you can see, the plane itself is invisible to both radar and optics. However, because of contractural issues, BAe were unable to apply their new stealth technology on their American made litening pods.
plawolfSo when the United States Congress passed the Taiwan Relations Act in 1979 and continue arms shipment to the Taiwanese armed forces, I guess they’re greatly undermining China’s sovereignty then. It annoys me that Western nations play Asians against one another. Pure evil.
Yes it is a gross violation of Chinese sovereighty, but the PRC were ‘red commies’ back then, and most in the US and the west would have taken great pleasure in undermining a commie government, and what can you do? Use the UN? The US and friends have no less then three vetos and far more ‘friends’ on the UN.
Aside from the UN, the only other course of action any nation can take to stop the US passing domestic laws that affect them is through military means to stop the implementation of such laws. The US have been almost religious in ensuring that no-one can match their military power to stop just that. Like all empires, Americans have grown used to deciding the fate of the rest of the world by themselves.
plawolfNot independent? But they were never apart of the People’s Republic of China :confused:
The island of Taiwan has legally belonged to China for hundreds of years. The Chinese CIVIL war was about who rule all of China, the PRC does not control Taiwan because the Chinese civil war is, technically, not over yet.
Nearing to end of the war on the mainland, the nationalist forces were shattered. The soilders were pressganged farmers who didn’t want to fight, and the generals all got their posts through connections instead of merit. Even with all the assistance the US could send, the nationaists still lost comprehensively. The communists were ready and willing to take the island of Taiwan and be done with it once and for all, but the US decided to park its 7th fleet in the strait to stop the ‘reds’ winning completely, and they did it out of self-interest at best, and out of spite at worst.
Since then, neither side have decleared the conflict over, and PRC and ROC forces (mainly jets, but also artillary) have clashed for decades afterwards.
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